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New Shark rules in NY

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BrianBM

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2 hours ago, John P said:

Do I assume sharks are endangered ?

The three species of sharks that make up about 95% of the (non-dogfish) shore-based shark fishery, sandbars, diskies, and sand tigers, are deemed "prohibited species" by the feds and by New York, and may not be legally retained (or, in New York, evan legally targeted).  The first two are overfished, with recovery schedules for 2070 and sometime in the early 22nd Century, respectively.  Sand tigers are unassessed, but considered vulnerable.

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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4 hours ago, CWitek said:

The three species of sharks that make up about 95% of the (non-dogfish) shore-based shark fishery, sandbars, diskies, and sand tigers, are deemed "prohibited species" by the feds and by New York, and may not be legally retained (or, in New York, evan legally targeted).  The first two are overfished, with recovery schedules for 2070 and sometime in the early 22nd Century, respectively.  Sand tigers are unassessed, but considered vulnerable.

Isn't it weird or at least noteworthy that two of the most vulnerable shark species are all over NY/NJ shores in numbers nobody alive has ever seen before? :) 

Show someone how to catch striped bass and they'll be ready to fish anywhere.
Show someone where to go striped bass fishing and you'll have a desperate report chaser with loose lips.

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1 hour ago, TimS said:

Isn't it weird or at least noteworthy that two of the most vulnerable shark species are all over NY/NJ shores in numbers nobody alive has ever seen before? :) 

i eon't think that it's noteworthy at all, largely because I disagree with your premise.

 

I am alive, and back in the 1980s, as will as in the late ;60s and '70s, I saw greater numbers of both sandbars and duskies than I see today, as well as larger individuals.  And although my observatioins were made sailing out of ports in New York, Connecticut, and Rhode Island, rather than New Jersey, the biggest concentratioins of small duskies that I saw were in the Mud Hole, when I was chunking for tuna during the late 1980s, and that's ALMOST New Jersey.

 

The shifting baseline syndrome is real.  We can't fall into the trap of thinking that what we--or even anyone alive today--has eveer seen is as good as things can get, or even as good as things should objectively be.

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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1 hour ago, BrianBM said:

Sharks are there. A lot of other things ... aren't, anymore. So, keeping doggies is OK, the rest I cut free.

 

Is it better practice to cut the leader, or the circle hook?

I carry a pair of blot cutters on the boat, and cut the hook itself.

 

If we're restraining the fish because we're implanting an acoustic tag, I'll also take a pair of hemostats or a long-nosed plier and remove the remnant of the cut hook from the fish's jaw.

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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10 mins ago, CWitek said:

i eon't think that it's noteworthy at all, largely because I disagree with your premise.

 

I am alive, and back in the 1980s, as will as in the late ;60s and '70s, I saw greater numbers of both sandbars and duskies than I see today, as well as larger individuals.  And although my observatioins were made sailing out of ports in New York, Connecticut, and Rhode Island, rather than New Jersey, the biggest concentratioins of small duskies that I saw were in the Mud Hole, when I was chunking for tuna during the late 1980s, and that's ALMOST New Jersey.

 

The shifting baseline syndrome is real.  We can't fall into the trap of thinking that what we--or even anyone alive today--has eveer seen is as good as things can get, or even as good as things should objectively be.

I'm sorry, I should have been clearer - I'm talking about from shore...I never bothered the 'garbage sharks' from a boat back in then 80-90s...so I don't have a lot of reference. I do remember a ton more "brown sharks" back in the 80's...I'm guessing they might have been little duskies...used to bother us mackerel fishing. But I never targeted them or had any real idea of their relative numbers.

 

But from shore, where I spent many thousands of hours, they seem to be vastly more numerous now than in the 80s or 90s or early 2000's. It wasn't that I targeted them, but there were no circles hooks and I fished a lot of bunker parts of pieces at night in the summer and only got cut off a couple times - and it could have easily been bluefish. These days it seems you throw meat in the surf at night in the summer and you are gonna run into sharks. It didn't used to be that way. But, to be honest, I have no idea of their availability from a boat in a chum slick.

 

And there's no way I'd ever confuse what an unfished population of ANYTHING could be with the scraps we are told is "normal" today. Even just a month or two of reduced fishing pressure during covid saw a ridiculous rebound in numerous local species. It was short lived and over within a week or two of the party boats starting to sail again - but it was noteworthy and meaningful to me. It showed me how much of a razor's edge fishery management like to use...and it's dangerous and short sighted.

 

TimS

Show someone how to catch striped bass and they'll be ready to fish anywhere.
Show someone where to go striped bass fishing and you'll have a desperate report chaser with loose lips.

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17 mins ago, CWitek said:

I saw were in the Mud Hole, when I was chunking for tuna during the late 1980s, and that's ALMOST New Jersey.

Yea, NJ does claim the Mud Hole, that counts :th:

Show someone how to catch striped bass and they'll be ready to fish anywhere.
Show someone where to go striped bass fishing and you'll have a desperate report chaser with loose lips.

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1 hour ago, TimS said:

I'm sorry, I should have been clearer - I'm talking about from shore...I never bothered the 'garbage sharks' from a boat back in then 80-90s...so I don't have a lot of reference. I do remember a ton more "brown sharks" back in the 80's...I'm guessing they might have been little duskies...used to bother us mackerel fishing. But I never targeted them or had any real idea of their relative numbers.

 

But from shore, where I spent many thousands of hours, they seem to be vastly more numerous now than in the 80s or 90s or early 2000's. It wasn't that I targeted them, but there were no circles hooks and I fished a lot of bunker parts of pieces at night in the summer and only got cut off a couple times - and it could have easily been bluefish. These days it seems you throw meat in the surf at night in the summer and you are gonna run into sharks. It didn't used to be that way. But, to be honest, I have no idea of their availability from a boat in a chum slick.

 

And there's no way I'd ever confuse what an unfished population of ANYTHING could be with the scraps we are told is "normal" today. Even just a month or two of reduced fishing pressure during covid saw a ridiculous rebound in numerous local species. It was short lived and over within a week or two of the party boats starting to sail again - but it was noteworthy and meaningful to me. It showed me how much of a razor's edge fishery management like to use...and it's dangerous and short sighted.

 

TimS

I'm in just the opposite position--I hae no idea what the surf is like today compared to 40 years ago.

 

What I do know is when I was in my early teens--late 1960s--we had big sandbars in western Long Island Sound, lose enough to shore that they would have been in what passed for "surf" in those sheltered waters, if the folks who owned the big waterfront estates let anyone fish in their back yards.  When I say "big," I'm talking about fish pushing 7-foot fork length and close to 200 pounds, that would grab some unsuspecting bass or bluefisherman's bunker and make them believe, for a few precious moments, that they were about to go down in the history books for finally breaking 73 pounds.

 

Hopefully, we'll see that again, now that sandbars are coming back, although they'll need a few years to reach the same dimensions as the fish that we saw back then. 

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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1 hour ago, LowEnd said:

Hopefully this will be the end of the nonsense that has been going on the past few years on the south shore. Doubt it.

 

We need a couple of them to get written up, and then start crying about it on social media, to get the message out.

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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10 mins ago, BrianBM said:

Was there ever a commercial market for sandbar or brown sharks? Or was it simply a matter of bycatch casualties?

I'm guessing, if we are being honest, the bunker reduction fleet did a lot of damage on them - they are always following and bothering schools of bunker. Reduction boats surround the entire school and everything in there dies. They kill billions of pounds every year and are allowed something stupid like 5% bycatch...which might not be a lot in a fluke dragger fishery....but is an enormous amount in a bunker purse seine fishery. 

 

There really isn't a directed hook and line fishery for what I call "garbage sharks"...at least not historically. It's gotten more and more targeted in the past decade...but they were already in trouble when that CnR fishery was started. 

Show someone how to catch striped bass and they'll be ready to fish anywhere.
Show someone where to go striped bass fishing and you'll have a desperate report chaser with loose lips.

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Unsurprisingly theres people on here that have a problem with keeping basic shark fishing equipment like bolt-cutters. with the exception of the casting rules, all of this should already be standard procedure. Luckily environmental regulations aren't a democracy and the average braindead fisherman doesn't have a say in this.

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