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Lithium Ion Batteries

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Need to replace a couple of deep cycle batteries.With the current price of group 27 lead acid batteries, I'm wondering if it's worth replacing them with another lead acid, or spring for lithium ion batteries. For not much more than a lead acid, I can get a lithium ion battery in group 24 which has nearly or even more amp hours than the group 27 lead acid. But as I go about researching I start to see a lot of price disparity. Can someone tell me the difference between a $225 lithium ion battery and a $500 one before I make a big mistake and just chase price. I typically get 3-4 years out of my lead acid batteries. But at nearly the same price, can expect quality from the lower priced lithium? Or would I be better served sucking it up and going for the higher priced lithium?Anyone here have experience with either end of the price range?

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FYI - -you DON'T want lithium ion. You want LIFEPO4 (Lithium iron phosphate)

 

In my opinion a lot of the cost difference is in the warranty and marketing. Make sure you read the warranty thoroughly as most of those 11 years ones are really 6 years. Apparently lots of the what I call "alphabet brands" have cheap (or no) BMS, as well as used cells. With those smaller "brands" I really wouldn't count on much warranty coverage beyond a couple months. They likely won't be around long.

 

Personally I'm getting ready to get a 50ah for my transom mount 55 electric. My decision is between TimeUSB and LiTime most likely the final 2 choices. To me these seem to be the more reputable brands of the "cheap" ones.

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I put a SOK 206ah LifePo battery in my camper a couple years ago. Fit in the same compartment as the previous lead acid (group 27 I think?). It's been great. Hard to believe you can get that many ah out of that size battery. It was super pricey at the time (around $1000), they've since dropped to $650. 

 

About the only negative is you can't charge them when the temp is below 32. That's also part of the difference between the super cheap Lifepo's and the more expensive ones. The super cheap usually won't have low temp charging protection. If you try and charge tham you can ruin the battery. Other things you might see in the more expensive ones are bluetooth monitoring and as mentioned longer warranties. 

 

 

I'll have mine on the rocks.

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33 mins ago, Eagles Dare said:

I put a SOK 206ah LifePo battery in my camper a couple years ago. Fit in the same compartment as the previous lead acid (group 27 I think?). It's been great. Hard to believe you can get that many ah out of that size battery. It was super pricey at the time (around $1000), they've since dropped to $650. 

 

About the only negative is you can't charge them when the temp is below 32. That's also part of the difference between the super cheap Lifepo's and the more expensive ones. The super cheap usually won't have low temp charging protection. If you try and charge tham you can ruin the battery. Other things you might see in the more expensive ones are bluetooth monitoring and as mentioned longer warranties. 

 

 

 

Can you charge them with a 'regular' battery charger, or do need something specific?

 

Point is, if you have an onboard charger, the price calculation changes 

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7 mins ago, makorider said:

 

Can you charge them with a 'regular' battery charger, or do need something specific?

 

Point is, if you have an onboard charger, the price calculation changes 

 

You can, but you won't get them to a full charge. The converter/charger in my camper was old and noisy with the fan blowing 75% of the time. So I switched to a newer LiFePo compatible unit but I didn't have to. I Also have a couple solar panels on the roof that help.

 

As far as the price calculation you also need to figure that a quality LiFePo will last 4X-5X the number of cycles as a lead acid battery. 

I'll have mine on the rocks.

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 You want a lipo4 like stated above.  You also want one with a a BSM.  Battery system management.  Yes and no on the charger .each lipo4 brand is diff on what amps on certain size ah batteries. It changes on size and brand.

 

My brother sells these but I personally  haven't used one.  Eposh brand.   They have a built in  heat  and sealed box setup.  Also comes with there charger for decent price .  Most lithium  can't be charged below 30 degrees and over 100 ..   so this is the only one I know that self regulate itself.  

 

The price is very attractive  for what you get.   Sealed box with mounting points  ,advanced bsm with heat Control  and there was something else. 

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I upgraded from a 12V trolling motor to a 24V the beginning of last season. To say that I've been happy with everything about them would be an understatement. Mine are 12V each at 65 AH and each weighs in at 15 pounds. I can troll all day for 2-3 days at 50% power which is plenty for my boat. 

I charged them close to full when I winterized and haven't charged them at all this winter. Prepping the boat now and the batteries are at 47%. :th:

I have a NOCO 3 bank charger that does Lithium, AGM, Lead cell. It's a smart charger that automatically detects the type of battery each bank is connected to.

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I like my epoch LiFePO4 a lot, granted its on my kayak. I got on sale but was well priced for a solid battery, its waterproof, good BMS, heated, has short circuit protection and overcharge/discharge protection. Its also got a nice app so you can see cell health and remaining power. Lots of features and not dakota lithium prices lol. I also second the NOCO chargers, definitely not the cheapest but also lots of features packed into the charger. 

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Thanks guys. Guess I need to do a little bit more research. The one thing I like with this new generation of batteries is the weight. Cuts the load in half. I'm liking the Epoch that bass ketchum filled me in on. Price is pretty good with a lot of features, and charger is semi reasonable.

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Bought a PacPow 24V 100aH LiFeP04 battery on amazon last year to replace my two 12V worn out AGM batteries for my trolling motor.  So far so good, but only one season, so the jury is still out.  Not thrilled with the made in china thing, but that's the way it is.  I like the reduced weight and the greater discharge depth.  Has an app for the phone with all the BMS info.  Paid $640.00.

 

You do need a changer that handles LiFePO4 if you want to fully change it.  Not expensive, just another china-junk thing.  The more expensive batteries have built in heaters so they can be charged at low temperatures.  My days of scraping icicles off the rain suit and rod guys are over, so I didn't see a reason to go that upscale.

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On 4/10/2024 at 12:30 PM, Paulie Herman said:

.  My days of scraping icicles off the rain suit and rod guys are over, so I didn't see a reason to go that upscale.

I hear ya on that one. I like the idea of that feature but doubt if I’d ever need it. I have an area with a hatchway that always hovers around 50 so I can charge a battery there. My goal is to lose weight. Not mine though it would be a plus! Half the weight in a battery. My tackle bag weighs about 50 pounds so I am breaking that down into smaller ones that can serve only the needs for that day. Every little bit helps. Thanks everyone for your suggestions. 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 5/9/2024 at 6:46 PM, Dogfish Between Jetties said:

I went with the LiTime (lifepo4)12V, 100ah with charger. It was one of the more reasonably priced batteries. The battery has Bluetooth connectivity, you can check the charge level on your phone.

Total price for both was right around or just under $400.

 

They are currently running a sale.

Don't know if they're the best or if they just do a lot of advertising. Their batteries seem to get the thumbs up in this thread. I'm leaning towards this battery but in a 54 Ah. I'm running an Endura Max 55lb trolling motor.That one with charger is on sale for $399. The battery you have is on sale for $699 with charger. I'd like to go with that one. But as I stare my retirement in the face, I need to be a little more frugal for right now. ( new roof, new driveway new bow window etc what momma wants )I retire in a couple of month so if I wait, when I draw out the first of my retirement money, maybe I'll splurge.

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Are there different batteries for starting larger engines with the li batteries?  Also, could be mixing up life and li ion, but batteries should be partially discharged when stored.  MY company has a fancy inspection submarine that uses lithium batteries, the charger has storage mode.  It burns down the battery to just under 50% for long term storage.

 

FYI, endura maxx trolling motors hate water getting on the head.  The variable resistor for the handle control goes bad and it'll cost you a few hundred to fix.  Cover the head up when not in use.

 

Looking to buy a lithium battery for my 12ft peception pescador pilot kayak.  Any recommendations on size?  Likely be using an endura maxx 55lb thrust.  Likely be on 3-4 hour trips, lets say 5-6 hours max.  Don't mind pedaling before I tucker out either.

Edited by salt deficient
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