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Looks like we might finally know what 2024 fluke, scup, Hudson bass regulations will look like

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New York hasn't yet announced what its 2024 fluke, scup, and Hudson River striped bass regulations will look like, but recent actions at the ASMFC are finally providing some strong indications of what they will be.

 

This afternoon, a meeting of the Atlantic Striped Bass Management Board approved a narrower, 23- to 28-inch slot for Hudson River striped bass, with no change to the bag limit or season.  Such slot is estimated to achieve a 14.9% reduction in landings.  A 14.1% reduction was required.

 

The ASMFC combines Connecticut and New York into a single region for summer flounder management purposes.  This year, that caused some issues, as Connecticut favored a smaller (19") minimum size, reduced (3-fish) bag,  and shorter (essentially mid-May through mid-September) season while New York, largely driven by its for-hire and fishing tackle industries, favored a larger (19 1/2") minimum size, the current (4-fish) bag, and a far longer (April 1-October 31) season.  After many negotiating sessions, the states forged a compromise which included a 19-inch minimum size for the period May 4-August 1, and a 19.5" minimum size for the period August 2-October 15, with a 3-fish bag limit throughout the season.  Such regulations meet the required 28% reduction, and will very probably be adopted by both states,

 

The ASMFC combines New York into a region with Connecticut, Rhode Island, and Massachusetts for scup management.  It appears that the minimum size for boat-based (including for-hire) anglers will increase from 10.5 to 11 inches, with no other changes to bag limit, seasons, or the shore-based size.  Such size increase will achieve the required 10% reduction, and is virtually certain to be adopted.

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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Not an overly big fluke fisherman, but it sounds reasonable. Seems 19" range is the staple for the foreseeable future.

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10 hours ago, Richizzzle said:

19 Inches for you and me and 14 inches for the Commercials.

 

Yeah real cool

We could have a 14” fluke, too, if we were willing to take the very short season that would go along with it.

 

Commercials fish to a hard quota, mid-season closures, and pound-for-pound paybacks of overages.  That makes a difference.  And few anglers would want to fish under those conditions.

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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39 mins ago, CWitek said:

We could have a 14” fluke, too, if we were willing to take the very short season that would go along with it.

 

Commercials fish to a hard quota, mid-season closures, and pound-for-pound paybacks of overages.  That makes a difference.  And few anglers would want to fish under those conditions.

 

Make it 19 for everyone

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1 hour ago, Richizzzle said:

 

Make it 19 for everyone

I'd settlle for 19 inches for anglers in New Jersey.  I think they're 3 @ 18" this year,.

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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1 min ago, EBHarvey said:

looks like CT adopted those regs - they're up on the DEEP website.

Makes sense.  New York and Connecticut must have the same regulations for both fluke and scup.

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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9 mins ago, CWitek said:

Makes sense.  New York and Connecticut must have the same regulations for both fluke and scup.

 

it'd be nice if they had the same ones for black seabass - those regs don't make any sense.

I've done stuff I ain't proud of, and the stuff I am proud of is disgusting.

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4 mins ago, EBHarvey said:

 

it'd be nice if they had the same ones for black seabass - those regs don't make any sense.

They should manage black sea bass similarly to scup, with the states responsible for 90%-plus of the landings governed by the same regulations.  It has worked very well for scup for the last 20 years.  But sea bass are now the big fish for the for-hires, and that fishery differs from state to state, making uniform rules hard to put in place.

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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48 mins ago, CWitek said:

They should manage black sea bass similarly to scup, with the states responsible for 90%-plus of the landings governed by the same regulations.  It has worked very well for scup for the last 20 years.  But sea bass are now the big fish for the for-hires, and that fishery differs from state to state, making uniform rules hard to put in place.

 

it's just so goofy in long island sound where the regs don't line up at all...it's open in CT on 5/18 at 5 fish, then closes 6/23, the same day NY opens at 3 fish, then CT's back open from 7/8 to 11/28 at 5 fish, but then NY jumps up to 6 fish on 9/1.  for someone docked in CT that fishes for them primarily in NY waters it's a lot to keep track of, and that's not even taking into account the different legal sizes.   

 

it just doesn't make sense that LIS, as a single body of water, can't have a single set of regulations.

I've done stuff I ain't proud of, and the stuff I am proud of is disgusting.

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40 mins ago, EBHarvey said:

 

it's just so goofy in long island sound where the regs don't line up at all...it's open in CT on 5/18 at 5 fish, then closes 6/23, the same day NY opens at 3 fish, then CT's back open from 7/8 to 11/28 at 5 fish, but then NY jumps up to 6 fish on 9/1.  for someone docked in CT that fishes for them primarily in NY waters it's a lot to keep track of, and that's not even taking into account the different legal sizes.   

 

it just doesn't make sense that LIS, as a single body of water, can't have a single set of regulations.

One of the problems is that Long Island has two shores.  The North Shore is best coordinated with Connecticut, while the South Shore, at least toward the west, is best coordinated with New Jersey.  And it could be argued that the East End is best coordinated with Rhode Island, although North Fork boats fish Connecticut waters quite a bit, too.

 

Blackfish is the only species with specific regulations for Long Island Sound, with different rules for the rest of New York.  But that creates some law enforcement issues, and creates scientific problems, too, because the recreational data is typically broken down by state, so it's difficult to craft effective regulations for the Sound vs. the South Shore.  On the other hand, in the case of blackfish, it makes sense, since there are separate stocks in the Sound and in the New York Bight.

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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19 hours ago, CWitek said:

This afternoon, a meeting of the Atlantic Striped Bass Management Board approved a narrower, 23- to 28-inch slot for Hudson River striped bass, with no change to the bag limit or season.  Such slot is estimated to achieve a 14.9% reduction in landings.  A 14.1% reduction was required.

That’s great news on the reduced slot, especially considering the recent lack of good spawns in the Hudson. It will be great to keep as many of those smaller, younger bass we do have in the population as long as we can. Killing 18” striper is just stupid.
 

My only concern is this isn’t on the DEC website or pamphlets yet and the season above the GWB opens in a few days. That coupled with the fact that enforcement has always been weak on the Hudson makes a 14.9% reduction in harvest seem idyllic at best. It’s these types of painful realities that make ASMFCs optimistic percentage modeling miss their mark at times. But I am glad to see this new narrow slot option and hope it remains for a while to see how it’ll help the Hudson population in time.

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33 mins ago, CWitek said:

One of the problems is that Long Island has two shores.  The North Shore is best coordinated with Connecticut, while the South Shore, at least toward the west, is best coordinated with New Jersey.  And it could be argued that the East End is best coordinated with Rhode Island, although North Fork boats fish Connecticut waters quite a bit, too.

 

and that's kind of what I was getting at. I doubt many boats fish the ocean side of LI and the sound side on the same day, certainly not anywhere near as many boats that fish both on sides of the mid-sound state line in a given day, so why not have LIS regs that apply to both NY and CT?  Ny has multiple sets of regulations for striped bass, so the idea wouldn't be without precedence.  

I've done stuff I ain't proud of, and the stuff I am proud of is disgusting.

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16 mins ago, hairyfishhead said:

That’s great news on the reduced slot, especially considering the recent lack of good spawns in the Hudson. It will be great to keep as many of those smaller, younger bass we do have in the population as long as we can. Killing 18” striper is just stupid.
 

My only concern is this isn’t on the DEC website or pamphlets yet and the season above the GWB opens in a few days. That coupled with the fact that enforcement has always been weak on the Hudson makes a 14.9% reduction in harvest seem idyllic at best. It’s these types of painful realities that make ASMFCs optimistic percentage modeling miss their mark at times. But I am glad to see this new narrow slot option and hope it remains for a while to see how it’ll help the Hudson population in time.

We'll probably see an emergency regulation come out in the next week or so.

 

Most likely, the season will open with the old slot, and then there will be a mid-season change.  The deadline for the new bass rules is May 1.

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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