overindexing on flyrods and technical data

[reel em in]

2 hours ago, HL said:

 

At the risk of overstating my welcome - there are rods as good as your outfront TH - but none better - and many inferior.

Herb

 

Lol 

I can’t believe you said this. 

[HL]

1 min ago, reel em in said:

Lol 

I can’t believe you said this. 

Just stressing point that, no matter your casting skills, there are rods that will improve one's casting.

H

[puppet]

3 hours ago, HL said:

Just stressing point that, no matter your casting skills, there are rods that will improve one's casting.

H

 

I hope this thread is not misuderstood.  Not all blanks or components or reels or lines are created equal.

 

The thread is mostly about discussing rod attributes like weight, tip heaviness, action, etc. out of context of of specific application.

 

Overindexing on casting distance for bonefishing is an example.  or talking about how great a blank is because it is a half ounce lighter.

 

Most today reviews never talk about application.

 

Trident sometimes does, but it pretty superficial.

[JonC]

Every once in a while you’ll pick up a rod to try out and instantly know that it’s something different, the challenge is to be able to recognize a great rod when you cast it. Good technique is the key. All the advertising hype in the world is of no help.

 

As an aside, I had the experience of finding a clearly different rod quite a few years ago when I picked up the actual rod Herb mentioned, and that Mike still uses today, I can relive those moments still.

 

JC

 

 

[Mike Oliver]

Herb yes I do. I think my post you may have interpreted out of context. 

Rods do matter it is the way that many companies market them appealing to our human weaknesses that I find rather sad..There is an overemphais on fast and the attending rediculous claims of tight loop capability. We must be suckers for this because it works. My MX is for me the nicest 10 wt I have ever owned. Ten years old and never bettered. The 10wt Xi2 the worst rod by a long chalk. For the ocean on the NE Coast of the USA no doubt in my mind that the requirement is for a 9 or 10 wt that is on the fast side. But if the rod is misslabled as so many are and it is an 11 or 12 then it can get fast rods a bad name. 

My 6 wt Igniter is the best casting rod in that weight but note the key word casting. I used it purely to help pass the casting exams. The tip is extremely stable and I was looking for every advantage I could. Now I have no use for this rod in a fishing situation. It is simply too powerful to fish the kind of tippets I associate with a 6wt rod. It is also a great rod to teach with as it is so positive. 

Herb which double handers out there can equal the performance of the ones we worked on together.  

Never before have I come to realise that minutiae that we get into regarding rods which basically surrounds distance performance has so little relevance to catching fish after spending two weeks Steelhead fishing with slip n slide .  

Far more important parameters were discussed at great length and everything was directed to catching fish which did include talk on our rods  action and in particular guides and their effect on helping produce a good drift. No emphasis on weight or effect on rod recovery. 

I speak with guides and to a man they tell me so many clients believe they can buy fish because they are with a Guide and have the best possible gear. Often in the case of Salmon trips to places like Norway and Iceland fishing can cost between $7500 and $20,000 a week or even less than a week. Now these in the main are business people.  They have the ability to be strategic to run a good business but for reasons that burn my arse are unable to apply this to fishing. They show up believing  the pictures in outfitters marketing blurb showing big Salmon and happy smiling faces  is going to be them but make no effort to obtain a good cast or mends or general fishing know how. They often get disappointed when

they fail. They buy access to good fishing but fail to recognise that this is not enough in itself.  You have to be able to fish. Some turn up without the physical capability to cope with the conditions. You can't make this up.  I teach total newcomers and they have a very high expectation that they will catch a fish on this first day ever.  They are disappointed rather than motivated to continue and learn more and discover more deeply rhe joy of fishing.

Mike

 

Edited November 18 by Mike Oliver

[Mike Oliver]

Jon

 

I had that same moment you experienced and it has continued ever since. How can we explain it.  What is so different in this rods construction that sets it apart from all others.

 

Mike

[Fergal]

It’s not the best comparison, but rods are kind of like shoes. Many of us may be the same size but we will likely prefer different shoes.

 

I also agree with Herb, rods do matter. But there are some layers to that. I have a Sage that I built a while ago, a 6wt (I don’t remember which one). It’s an absolutely horrible 6wt but it is a pretty nice 8wt. So, for it’s intended use, it sucks and largely sits in the ceiling rack or away in a tube.

 

The trick is finding a rod you like, that fits your preferences and skillset, trying not to get caught up in the marketing bull**** (some companies are worse at this than others). 

[HL]

1 hour ago, Fergal said:

It’s not the best comparison, but rods are kind of like shoes. Many of us may be the same size but we will likely prefer different shoes.

 

I also agree with Herb, rods do matter. But there are some layers to that. I have a Sage that I built a while ago, a 6wt (I don’t remember which one). It’s an absolutely horrible 6wt but it is a pretty nice 8wt. So, for it’s intended use, it sucks and largely sits in the ceiling rack or away in a tube.

 

The trick is finding a rod you like, that fits your preferences and skillset, trying not to get caught up in the marketing bull**** (some companies are worse at this than others). 

LOVE the shoe analogy!!
Herb

[HL]

Mike O asked

"Herb which double handers out there can equal the performance of the ones we worked on together".

 

Mike - none other than what we worked on.

What I was referring to is the CTS DQ12611-4.

It is a "Spey" blank in name only - on steriods.  It's an 11/12 weight whose action is a little faster than your blank - but still has pleanty of power to handle 500 gr.

I just built a DQ1108-4 that casts 425gr RIO OB #10 easy 100'.

I don't like to carry around a 12' + rod.  So, sold the DQ12'6" to SOL's bassadana on last fundraiser.

 

Herb

[Running Ape]

I usually fish with vintage glass rods or cheap graphite. I catch plenty of fish except fly albies and it’s not the rod or casting as I’ve landed in the feeds plenty of times. 

[Scott F]

The line used also matters.  I’ve changed my opinion on rods as I searched for the line that works best for my casting and fishing style.  I like the least effort to make the cast.  Sometimes that means heavy in line class or over line class.  Grain weight is more important to me than stated line number.   The taper is less important.

this is for coastal redfish and largemouth bass.

[puppet]

8 hours ago, Scott F said:

 I’ve changed my opinion on rods as I searched for the line that works best for my casting

 

Yes there is the whole system to consider, from the blank, the line, the fly, the application, the conditions, and the angler.

 

In my opinion, some folk dont fish a rod enough time to understand the tool completely.

 

"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man."

-Heraclitus

What Heraclitus notes here extends to so many things including our understanding of the tools we use.  As you note, your perception of a rod has changed and gained utility.  It is not the same tool as you percieved before.

Really most of us own too many rods to really have an intimate understanding of each one. This is another reason to resist aquiring more equipment and master what we have.

[Mike Oliver]

Heraclitus sure knew stuff. 

Great Post puppet. I am guilty as charged. Mike 

[puppet]

11 mins ago, Mike Oliver said:

Heraclitus sure knew stuff. 

Great Post puppet. I am guilty as charged. Mike 

It is not written to make us feel guilty, but to be potentally aware of our behavior.

 

It is fun to experiment with new equipment and new equipment combinations.  It in itself is entertainment and educational as we can cross reference everthing against other equipment we own or experienced.  That said, it probably will not result in more fish on the leash, but it might increase our enjoyment in casting.

[Fergal]

10 hours ago, Scott F said:

The line used also matters.  I’ve changed my opinion on rods as I searched for the line that works best for my casting and fishing style.  I like the least effort to make the cast.  Sometimes that means heavy in line class or over line class.  Grain weight is more important to me than stated line number.   The taper is less important.

this is for coastal redfish and largemouth bass.

I’d say It’s still mostly an issue with the rod but lines play a role too. 
 

First, as Sage is fond of doing, you have rods that are under-rated. You buy a 10wt but it’s really an 11. The problem is that the $100 10wt line that you bought to go with it doesn’t work well unless you buy a 10wt line (like a Rio) that has the grain wt of a 12wt. Then it might work. 
 

the entire thing is a mess.