reel em in Posted October 10 Author Report Share Posted October 10 Informative post Rio Gamechanger is not listed on their USA site Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sms Posted October 10 Report Share Posted October 10 The current version seems to be InTouch Skagit Max GameChanger. It is mostly sinking (there is a small floating portion at the back of the head), but if for floating body any good tapered skagit head will do fine - if of the old and almost flat, then it doesn't work too well. Nowadays it looks that Rio skagits tend to be pretty well tapered. Essentially by choosing how heavy the body is one can choose skagit, scandit or scandi for the same rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oliver Posted October 10 Report Share Posted October 10 Sak----- Great Post. Sadly on an Irish fishing trip fishing sucks so spent the afternoon in great company supping too many glasses of Guiness. Yep totally with you on ease of casting Scandi type fly lines over traditional long belly spey. The waters seem to be muddying now with some Scandi.tapers being more aggressive. Impressive that you got a Scandi line to lift a T. TIP. I just dont understand why.some.of the.lads.on this thread are remotely interested. in trying to spey cast out front. It's like taking a battle tank.on with a pea shooter. Mines a Guiness. Oly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reel em in Posted October 10 Author Report Share Posted October 10 20 mins ago, sms said: The current version seems to be InTouch Skagit Max GameChanger. It is mostly sinking (there is a small floating portion at the back of the head), but if for floating body any good tapered skagit head will do fine - if of the old and almost flat, then it doesn't work too well. Nowadays it looks that Rio skagits tend to be pretty well tapered. Essentially by choosing how heavy the body is one can choose skagit, scandit or scandi for the same rod. JP Thanks for the reply. I just checked their site I see it listed. I have not tried that line yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oliver Posted October 10 Report Share Posted October 10 (edited) I have a 725 grain Game Changer.which I huck off a 15 foot 10 wt Igniter..with.the end bit an S3 It's like shite off a shove. Not sure I want to cast using airborne anchors. But in the ocean no bloody.chance. Why go from maximum tension of an overhead to a D loop. When waiting for flat water between sets of waves what is the fly line doing. Its kinda hard for me to imagine this as it is time pressured enough overheading. Distance spey casting in the ocean is just nuts. There are mostly no obstructions behind us. So what's the motivation. Baffled. Oly Edited October 10 by Mike Oliver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reel em in Posted October 10 Author Report Share Posted October 10 (edited) 13 mins ago, Mike Oliver said: I have a 725 grain Game Changer.which I huck off a 15 foot 10 wt Igniter..with.the end bit an S3 It's like shite off a shove. Not sure I want to cast using airborne anchors. But in the ocean no bloody.chance. Why go from maximum tension of an overhead to a D loop. When waiting for flat water between sets of waves what is the fly line doing. Its kinda hard for me to imagine this as it is time pressured enough overheading. Distance spey casting in the ocean is just nuts. There are mostly no obstructions behind us. So what's the motivation. Baffled. Oly Maybe because you never did it before. It’s all a matter of timing. Not a friendly wind out front today. Moved it to the back bay. Here’s a picture of the water better for your Mike Keep it friendly now Mike, I have a lot of respect for you, but I am losing it. I will not take on the great Mike Oliver. I’m just a nobody. Tom Edited October 10 by reel em in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reel em in Posted October 10 Author Report Share Posted October 10 PS I know you’re not going to like this Mike. But don’t overpower the rod let the rod do the work. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oliver Posted October 10 Report Share Posted October 10 Tom I hope I am not being dissrespectful just enquiring and very puzzled..Surely it is legitimate to question. It is human nature. I am not sure if you are aware of the battles fought over many years on SoL trying to extol the virtues of double hand rods Out. Front. This also accured my side of the pond with guys who were adamant that single hand had sway.over Two. Almost universal none of them had.ued rhe surf with a double hander and some I.suspect with a si gke hander in the conditions often found on your N.E coast of America. This of course burned my arse but did not stop me in trying g to move this forward. Then there was the massive reluctance of fly.fishers of single hand rods to accept anything much.over 11 feet. Set against sound technical reasons of the need to go longer if performance was their goal. Desperately.few people to this day understand the design requirements and line matching to an Out Front Beach fly rod. It has been shared on SOL. So please forgive me when I am a trifle surprised at all the discussion sourpunding fly lines for spey.casting in the Ocean as based on my past experience and now my latest as a qualified Instructer it does not make a lot sense. The whole reason for developing suitable rods and techniques was so that when the wind and waves blew we did not have to leave the beach or go seek calmer conditions on the onside. Wond can be your enemy and your friend. Now back bay if you wish to spey cast because you enjoy the technique that I can understand but if you are looking for great performance which I believe has come up on this thread spey just cannot compete with overhead. Long spey lines unless used in a current where we can swing our flies are going to be plain difficult as we have to work our fly which means retrieving it inside our rod guides. Then resetting the cast to make another and with no current its going to be a jump roll or Perry poke and we have to work that line outside the rod tip somehow. If current is present then we can make the appropriate spey cast depending on the wind direction as all spey casts apart from the jump roll and Perry poke are of course change of direction casts. There will be a requirement with given wind directions to have use left hand up. Or cack hand. I struggle with the notion of a beach where we need to wait for a pause in the wave set. If we are using a full spey line where is it. FWIW I have tried to use spey casts Out Front and quickly abandoned it. It's just not really a great way to get our fly out to the fish. The pic you have posted of a calm back way then spey casts will work but if not much current we will be better off with a shooting head Like the Vision Ace as we can draw our line to fish the flies and to make our next cast. Lots of discussion on lines but not much on how they are getting out there. If spey casting in the ocean floats your boat your call not mine. A discussion was invited and I have taken part in that and in good faith, given my opinion which is based on experience ovdr many years I hope that this would be seen as helpful for others who maybe are thinking of going the spey casting route . Not a question of taking each.other on Tom but a free exchange of ideas and opinions. Mike yarddog59 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oliver Posted October 10 Report Share Posted October 10 Tom Your correct. Rods are dumb sticks they can only respond to the input we give them. A rod on its own can never do the work. Of course we can overpower and that's common. A huge number of guys have the mantra let the rod do the work including Instructers but have they thought about what that actually means. Mike off fishing now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sms Posted October 10 Report Share Posted October 10 1 hour ago, Mike Oliver said: I have a 725 grain Game Changer.which I huck off a 15 foot 10 wt Igniter..with.the end bit an S3 It's like shite off a shove. Not sure I want to cast using airborne anchors. Holy chit man! 725gr is bonkers. That is true heavy skagit weight for your rod. And you've got the wrong action rod for true skagit. In my opinion no-one needs skagit in heavy weights. The line masses are high enough anyway to handle any tip and really usable fly in scandi or scandit anyway. Here most seem to use 500-550gr Gamechanger bodies for 15' rods. I just checked one multi tip head (that I cut from old Rio Sink I AFS head) that I use and it is 475gr and about 24'. I use that with my GLoomis GLX 15' #10. For that rod it is a bit on the scandit side of scandi. Has worked very well with any tip I've tried as long as I am wading so that the line is not too short and I get enough of it behind the rod on forward cast. Standing on a high rock and these short lines are not working so well. Real skagit is in my opinion needed when too big/heavy flies and heavy sink tips are needed in comparison to the rod length and stiffness. So basically one wants to use light rod to toss heavy stuff. Up the head weight a lot, cast sustained anchors -> smaller line speeds and shorter distances. Fishing is light and you do not need overkill rods in comparison to target fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oliver Posted October 11 Report Share Posted October 11 Sak----- I know we like different rod actions and that the Igniter would not be considered as having the ideal action for skagit lines by many. Reason mine is 725g is because Rio is stating that for 10/11 rods. So I got one and from a casting perspective it does fly. These lines are not expensive so I can try a 500/550 g head which according to Rio is for a 7 wt rod. I am.planning on getting a CTS MDX blank and getting used to more deeply bending blanks. 15 foot rods and short heads are not great. Finding the time to build blanks currently is not easy. Too many half built projects on my bench. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yarddog59 Posted October 11 Report Share Posted October 11 11 hours ago, Mike Oliver said: I have tried to get line makers to help but so far no cigar. I have potential with a new developing relationship. To maybe change that. Vision Hybrid lines with their tips can make into a reasonable overhead line. You probably don't have Vision in the USA but a quick Google and you can find in the UK. Your strong dollar makes shopping with us nice. If push comes to shove I can get what you want and mail.it to you. Pay.pal can sort out the financial. What I can't do is remove the Vat tax which.is why its best to buy direct. Glasgow Angling is a good supplier. Mike. Mike, Thanks. I will join you if you do get a company to produce the integrated line we know is needed for the TH ovehead surf cast. Meanwhile Ill look at the Vision Hybrid. I know what works for me with the running line FIST, Tips and loop to loop to connections, so maybe some amateur weird science on my part, weighing and micrometering(sp) and measuring will give me a clue. Enjoy your trip. YD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oliver Posted October 11 Report Share Posted October 11 YD Give me the weight all up.weight of head.you are looking for and this is to include the tip and the length of your rod and I will send you one over on me. Mike yarddog59 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reel em in Posted October 11 Author Report Share Posted October 11 Nice Way to go Mike !!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfflyguy Posted October 11 Report Share Posted October 11 Im just glad you guys fish your two handers on the beach. that means less people fishing my swining water lol. yarddog59 and Mike Oliver 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to register here in order to participate.
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now