Two Hand Spey Casting

[surfflyguy]

14 hours ago, Mike Oliver said:

I don’t know the geography well as a first time visitor.I am fishing in the Indian Reservation. The river goes under the Route 20 or route 5. There is a big rotary. A fantastic Mom and Pops diner called Toms. Does this pinpoint me for you. Ah my digs are in Dunkirk and we drive through Silver Creek to get to the river.

 

mike

Nice there might be some fish in the upper river now too. Careful on the res sometimes the natives get a bit restless 

[reel em in]

Update 

I have the spey casting  completed to my complete satisfaction. Same as my two hand overhead  casting and single hand overhead casting.
All line stripped into a line tray. Standard strip off for spey casting is 125 feet using a line tray.  More if I have a cooperating wind.
Spey casting the Perry Poke, Jedi and few others. Object is to get the fly out there. The Jedi cast works very well out front. Recommend by a very knowledgeable SOL fly fishing member. 

 

NO INSTRUCTOR

No bs and dollars paid. 
 

Mike O keep it friendly. 
That steelhead fishing trip is a great trip but I don’t travel to fish anymore. 
I just salt water fly fish and drive my beach buggy on my home waters now. I wet a line everyday. 

I must be the only guy two hand fly fishing out front on my home waters. Never saw anybody else. Especially spey casting out front or the back bay 

What a journey and lots of money. 
 

A spey head with a running line is a challenge to strip back the line to keep the loop outside the rod tip. My eyesight is not what it used to be. I strip back till I hear the thump of the line on the rod tip. Then I know the loop is outside the rod tip.
I purchased an integrated line and makes it a lot easier to strip back. 

Yes you can spey cast out front in the ocean.  Not every day. You have to pick the day, wind and water conditions.

Back bay Spey casting no problem. Just need a friendly wind. 
Just another fly fishing method out front or the back bay. 

 

Two hand overhead casting is definitely better fly fishing my home waters than  spey casting. 

Now I have to decide whether I want to purchase a new spey rod or keep using my Echo Full Spey 13’ 8 wt rod. 
I am looking at

G Loomis 

NRX + Spey

NRX + 9133-4 9 wt 

13’ 3” long rod

$1000 rod 

Does anybody own one and care to share some information?

Tom

 

Edited November 20 by reel em in

[TopStriperAngler]

Mike puts a bit of aquaseal I think on the line to know when he has the head outside the rod tip to the proper amount. The aquaseal portion of the line will be in or have just passed through his hands that's how he would know. Might work with the spey?

[Mike Oliver]

Top

 

It will work ok. Wether it is so necessary with some bigger spey lines we only know through trial and error. Unlike reel em in I have no desire to take a spey  set up out front. If the conditions are favourable for spey casting Out Front then where I fish on the NE Coast of the USA and Canada the conditions are not great for catching fish. 

 

reel em in from what you are telling us do you need to re invent your own wheel and spend new money on another rod. There are some world class spey rods that I would consider as more suitable than most but they fall into the 15 foot 10 wt arena and I don't think you might wish to go that big. I would look at Sage R8 when available and their current Igniter 15 foot 10wt. Then the discontinued Vision Tool 15 foot 10 wt. Sage old Tcx or TCR. Same length and line. Loop and Guide make great spey rods. I would stay away from most USA spey rods as they tend to be more through action. Skagit is pretty common in the US. Smaller D loops and softer rods maybe suit some guys or even most guys more.  I spent many months on my quest and nothing was available commercially. But good spey rids are but I can't choose one for you. No one can. As you are the only guy doing  what you are doing on your patch you are on your own. Few guys are in a position to genuinely help you. Sure you will get a stream of I don't do this but reckon this would work. I know I did over many years and if you ever think I am not friendly I am a puss  y cat compared to the vitriol I often received.

You are digging your own furrow and so help real help will be as rare as rocking  horse dung.

 

Mike

Edited November 20 by Mike Oliver

[surfflyguy]

1 hour ago, Mike Oliver said:

Top

 

It will work ok. Wether it is so necessary with some bigger spey lines we only know through trial and error. Unlike reel em in I have no desire to take a spey  set up out front. If the conditions are favourable for spey casting Out Front then where I fish on the NE Coast of the USA and Canada the conditions are not great for catching fish. 

 

reel em in from what you are telling us do you need to re invent your own wheel and spend new money on another rod. There are some world class spey rods that I would consider as more suitable than most but they fall into the 15 foot 10 wt arena and I don't think you might wish to go that big. I would look at Sage R8 when available and their current Igniter 15 foot 10wt. Then the discontinued Vision Tool 15 foot 10 wt. Sage old Tcx or TCR. Same length and line. Loop and Guide make great spey rods. I would stay away from most USA spey rods as they tend to be more through action. Skagit is pretty common in the US. Smaller D loops and softer rods maybe suit some guys or even most guys more.  I spent many months on my quest and nothing was available commercially. But good spey rids are but I can't choose one for you. No one can. As you are the only guy doing  what you are doing on your patch you are on your own. Few guys are in a position to genuinely help you. Sure you will get a stream of I don't do this but reckon this would work. I know I did over many years and if you ever think I am not friendly I am a puss  y cat compared to the vitriol I often received.

You are digging your own furrow and so help real help will be as rare as rocking  horse dung.

 

Mike

Mike I think you would like the Meier MKX it’s stiff in the tip 

[Mike Oliver]

Do you mean Meiser. I have had one of their rods in the past and it was sold as a rod with an attenuated butt. So for me it was a disaster.  As I understand their builds they do like to make rods with a deeper flex into the butt but with a stiffer tip. Classic action for skagit lines and not for me overheading Out Front.

 

Mike

[reel em in]

@Mike Oliver

Great post Mike 

I’ll take a look at some of those rods but definitely no 15 ft rods 

Tom

 

[reel em in]

16 hours ago, Mike Oliver said:

Unlike reel em in I have no desire to take a spey  set up out front. If the conditions are favourable for spey casting Out Front then where I fish on the NE Coast of the USA and Canada the conditions are not great for catching fish. 

 

 

 

Mike

Mike

This has  me thinking. We have known this four many years. 
On my home waters sandy beaches the old timers ( have to watch how I say that) they come out and sit in their chairs with their old old rods and bait fish and throw the bait right in the wash and boy do they catch. 

Spey casting the fish have to be in the wash or in close. 

If I want to cast father two hand over head. I am a guy who always tries to cast out to the bar.  They tell me I over cast. 
Tom

[Mike Oliver]

Tom depends. Two hot spots on a typical steep surf beach. The first is the bottom of the slope the second is the first sand bar. The first is more about line control than casting. We need to keep our fly in the tumble zone for as long as possible. Leader is important. Around 6 foot of S6 Poly leader and four feet of tippet to fly. Need a decent surf to create the ideal conditions and white water. Middle part of the trough is often dead water.

[reel em in]

Mike

The Loop and Guide Spey Rods looks interesting. 
Care to point me in the right direction. 13 ft rod that throws about 600 gr. 
I know nothing about these rods. Plus it is overseas. 
Tom

[Mike Oliver]

Do you mean Meiser. I have had one of their rods in the past and it was sold as a rod with an attenuated butt. So for me it was a disaster.  As I understand their builds they do like to make rods with a deeper flex into the butt but with a stiffer tip. Classic action for skagit lines and not for me overheading Out Front.

 

Mike

[Mike Oliver]

Tom,

 

I have not cast recent rods from either company. We are both at the mercy of the description given by the makers. Spey rods go in fashion in Europe. Moving between powerful and fast like the Tool and Ignitor and more recently going to a softer action which I hate. The Sage 13’ 6 inch 8 wt is a very nice rod. Not cheap but utterly delightful.
Global markets now. I have no issue with buying USA rods and blanks and blanks from NZ and the Far East. Vision are worth a shout. Tackle shows can be good places to try new rods. I get to try quite a few with my new found work but still relatively few compared to the numbers out there. Older fast Sages in the used market are worth looking at. But with the performance you are currently getting a new rod is not going to improve on it.

mike

 

[reel em in]

7 mins ago, Mike Oliver said:

Tom,

 

But with the performance you are currently getting a new rod is not going to improve on it.

mike

 

Mike

Honorable post. You speak from the heart. 
 

I was also thinking on my performance. A new rod is not going get me much more distance. Probably not even worth it. Stick with what I have.  DIAL IT IN MORE. 

 

I am going to experiment with a 475gr integrated line with a 25 ft Skagit head with a 10 ft T11 floating Mow tip. Total 35 ft head total about 595 gr spey casting or a Jedi cast using the Echo 13 ft spey rod. See how I like it. 
 

I’ve been having a problems with friction in the guides with the running line casting. The friction cuts down on the casting distance. Running line is .035 braided nylon multifilament core. Thinking of dropping down to .027 to see if that cuts down on the friction. 
Stock rod guides to small? You probably use larger guides when you build a rod for somebody. I’m not going to go that route. 
When I use Scientific Anglers shooting line braided mono .032 it sails through the guides. 

Maybe I’ll go back to two hand overhead casting out front and forget about casting to the bar and casting closer like the old-timers in the wash. lol

 

Thanks

Tom

 

[reel em in]

I thought I might try flat mono shooting line so I ordered a roll.   I’m not even going to try it.  I couldn’t even see myself trying to strip that into a stripping basket.

[surfflyguy]

11 mins ago, reel em in said:

I thought I might try flat mono shooting line so I ordered a roll.   I’m not even going to try it.  I couldn’t even see myself trying to strip that into a stripping basket.

Its probably the best mono out there for casting. Its all I use. You have to remember when spey casting we dont use striping baskets we coil the running line in loops between our fingers when preparing for the next cast. If its too slick which some people feel that rio makes a hybrid coated line.