Two Hand Spey Casting

[reel em in]

Who wants to talk about it?

No instructor for me. 
Overhead casting and shingle hand spey casting I do not have a problem with. 

Is Spey and Scandi casting the same?

Too much information on the net and Spey Pages. It gets confusing.  So I figured I would ask here.

Two Hand Spey casting. 
My set up.
Right hand caster. 
13 ft Spey rod. 

Short Belly 625 gr Spey line with 46 ft head. 

How many feet outside of rod tip. 

Placement of fly. 

180 degrees to your left or straight out in front of you. 

Lift and swing the fly out of the water and swing it around your back, and then your forward cast. The fly  remains underneath the tip until the forward cast   
 

Keep it simple. 
 

Thanks 

 

 

[surfflyguy]

Ok so I fish a two handed rod 80% of the time and it deff can be challenging but I will try to adress your questions.

 

1. Strongly consider an instrustor.  If you are located in the Northeast they have many to chose from and are well worth it,

 

2. All Scandi Casts are Spey casts but with the line you plan on using you will probably do many more touch and go casts like a snake roll.

 

3. A 13' rod is great I use one for steelhead. What weight is it where will you be fishing?

 

4. So I think its great you want to fish a scandi head but you picked the hardest way to learn.  What made you chose that line? You will be putting all 46 feet of that head outside the rod tip. 

 

5. Fly placement depends on what side of the river you are at. Some times its even directly in front of you.

 

Finally get a lesson with proper instruction you can probably get where you feel comfortable in a few months.  

[reel em in]

1 hour ago, surfflyguy said:

Ok so I fish a two handed rod 80% of the time and it deff can be challenging but I will try to adress your questions.

 

1. Strongly consider an instrustor.  If you are located in the Northeast they have many to chose from and are well worth it,

 

2. All Scandi Casts are Spey casts but with the line you plan on using you will probably do many more touch and go casts like a snake roll.

 

3. A 13' rod is great I use one for steelhead. What weight is it where will you be fishing?

 

4. So I think its great you want to fish a scandi head but you picked the hardest way to learn.  What made you chose that line? You will be putting all 46 feet of that head outside the rod tip. 

 

5. Fly placement depends on what side of the river you are at. Some times its even directly in front of you.

 

Finally get a lesson with proper instruction you can probably get where you feel comfortable in a few months.  

Thanks for the reply
 

1.  No instructor. I couldn’t put up with the BS. I did quite well teaching myself overhead casting and  single hands Spey.  It took a long time and many hours. 

 

2. Yes

 

3. 8wt. I usually over line. 
Back bay Long, Beach, Island, New, Jersey, and out front if the water conditions are right 

 

4. Short belly line with a 46 ft head to reach 100 feet on one back cast. 
 

[surfflyguy]

I would say for what you want to do go with a Skagit head. You will be able to overhead cast much easier with that. And you will probably cast much further. 

[reel em in]

5 hours ago, surfflyguy said:

I would say for what you want to do go with a Skagit head. You will be able to overhead cast much easier with that. And you will probably cast much further. 

I do that already with unbelievable distance with different 13’ and  14’ rods and also an 11’ Thomas and Thomas surf rod 
 

Just  something else I’m trying to accomplish.  It’s all in the fun. 

Edited October 7 by reel em in

[Mike Oliver]

The biggest amount of BS comes from people who do not understand spey casting  period. Who have no understanding of the five principles  of fly casting. It is not always possible to simply things. If it was that simple we Instructers would be redundant. Sure there are bum wipes out there who are Instructor's just like there are bum wipe budding spey casters. Forget about trying to learn by.the written word in a post.  If you wish to become a good spey caster make the investment in lessons. Personally it took me two years to get a good cast. You can get a fishing cast with a skagit set up in a day with qualified help.  Via a forum post how long have you got. I don't understand your claim.to understand singe hand spey.casting but are struggling.just because your rod is a two hander. Have a looks at KLaus Fremoir if you wish to see qualitysingle.hand and double hand spey.casting using scandi lines. There is little difference to casting  a longer belly spey line. Forget this  emphasis.on lower hand in scandi good casters will use.lower.hand on std long belly.spey lines.  Scandi.heads are shorter typically.have longer.finer front end tapers but have much.longer leaders and limited to smaller flies. 

Mike

Edited October 7 by Mike Oliver

[Mike Oliver]

Are you looking to spey cast in the surf. You can try.but will get frustrated by surf drowning  your anchor or making effective anchor placement very difficult. Even rippled water makes spey casting difficult. The cast which gives most. tension and performance is the overhead..Neither a spey line or scandi lines are good choices for overhead casting. 

13 foot rod and 625 grains is not going to be great for overhead it is overloaded. 625 might be ok n for skagit work. But skagit in the surf would be a comedy.

 

Mike

[reel em in]

2 hours ago, Mike Oliver said:

The biggest amount of BS comes from people who do not understand spey casting  period. Who have no understanding of the five principles  of fly casting. It is not always possible to simply things. If it was that simple we Instructers would be redundant. Sure there are bum wipes out there who are Instructor's just like there are bum wipe budding spey casters. Forget about trying to learn by.the written word in a post.  If you wish to become a good spey caster make the investment in lessons. Personally it took me two years to get a good cast. You can get a fishing cast with a skagit set up in a day with qualified help.  Via a forum post how long have you got. I don't understand your claim.to understand singe hand spey.casting but are struggling.just because your rod is a two hander. Have a looks at KLaus Fremoir if you wish to see qualitysingle.hand and double hand spey.casting using scandi lines. There is little difference to casting  a longer belly spey line. Forget this  emphasis.on lower hand in scandi good casters will use.lower.hand on std long belly.spey lines.  Scandi.heads are shorter typically.have longer.finer front end tapers but have much.longer leaders and limited to smaller flies. 

Mike

 

48 mins ago, Mike Oliver said:

Are you looking to spey cast in the surf. You can try.but will get frustrated by surf drowning  your anchor or making effective anchor placement very difficult. Even rippled water makes spey casting difficult. The cast which gives most. tension and performance is the overhead..Neither a spey line or scandi lines are good choices for overhead casting. 

13 foot rod and 625 grains is not going to be great for overhead it is overloaded. 625 might be ok n for skagit work. But skagit in the surf would be a comedy.

 

Mike

Mike

Having a bad day?

I will ignore these two posts.

I will keep doing what I do because I am successful at it.  

[Mike Oliver]

No not a bad day just struggling to understand the paradoxes of your question. The question,one of them is answered by yourself by your stated  ability to spey cast single hand rods in terms of how spey casts are made.

Scandi lines are simply shooting heads around 35 feet long attached to a suitable running line of choice.  They are typically lighter than a spey line to be used on the same rod. They are designed for airborne.anchor casts although you can still use sustained anchor type casts. They are designed for stealth and they are used with long leaders to get the anchoring done. They are best used with small flies. They won't lift heavy sink tips. You should if you are going to shoot line have all the head outside of the rod tip. Advantage over traditional spey line is that you can draw your flies around the pool. Disadvantage is that before you can re cast you have to pull in the running line.

Spey line typically heavier for same rod. All the head is outside of the rod tip unless you are short range casting. Better at sustained anchor casts than scandi. Main advantage is that you dont have to pull in fly line before re casting.  

They are cast in very similar ways. Both benefit from good use of the lower hand. Nothing magical about so called underhand casting.  In usage context for salt water any type of spey cast in water that is not reasonably flat is a solid waste of time. Spey casting was developed for rivers.  

Mike

 

Edited October 8 by Mike Oliver

[reel em in]

51 mins ago, Mike Oliver said:

No not a bad day just struggling to understand the paradoxes of your question. The question,one of them is answered by yourself by your stated  ability to spey cast single hand rods in terms of how spey casts are made.

Scandi lines are simply shooting heads around 35 feet long attached to a suitable running line of choice.  They are typically lighter than a spey line to be used on the same rod. They are designed for airborne.anchor casts although you can still use sustained anchor type casts. They are designed for stealth and they are used with long leaders to get the anchoring done. They are best used with small flies. They won't lift heavy sink tips. You should if you are going to shoot line have all the head outside of the rod tip. Advantage over traditional spey line is that you can draw your flies around the pool. Disadvantage is that before you can re cast you have to pull in the running line.

Spey line typically heavier for same rod. All the head is outside of the rod tip unless you are short range casting. Better at sustained anchor casts than scandi. Main advantage is that you dont have to pull in fly line before re casting.  

They are cast in very similar ways. Both benefit from good use of the lower hand. Nothing magical about so called underhand casting.  In usage context for salt water any type of spey cast in water that is not reasonably flat is a solid waste of time. Spey casting was developed for rivers.  

Mike

 

Now this is the kind of response I expect from Mr. Mike Oliver. 

[yarddog59]

23 hours ago, reel em in said:

I do that already with unbelievable distance with different 13’ and  14’ rods and also an 11’ Thomas and Thomas surf rod 
 

Just  something else I’m trying to accomplish.  It’s all in the fun. 

Maybe Ive asked before, but forgot, but what line works for you best on the T&T surf? Thanks!

[reel em in]

20 mins ago, yarddog59 said:

Maybe Ive asked before, but forgot, but what line works for you best on the T&T surf? Thanks!

I read your posts about the lines that you use and I tell myself they are not heavy enough.  I did not respond to your posts. I think to myself maybe he doesn’t want to snap his thousand dollar rod.

Maybe  you have changed to a heavier line since I read your posts. 
Here is a picture of what I am using with a 10 foot T11 Mow tip added to the weight. 
Unbelievable casting distance. 
If onlyT&T made a 13 ft rod. 
I realize that you don’t want to hear it, but I don’t use my T&T rod that much because I believe it’s not an out front rod.
Tom

 

Edited October 8 by reel em in

[yarddog59]

Tom,

Thanks again and shoot from the hip, as I have a well tested hazardous environmental coating and can't be overinsulted! Experience is the best teacher, thats why I ask. I had been using a Loomis 9 foot single hand 10 weight outfront for many years, and believed the T&T TH overhead surf could  be an upgrade. On bluebird days outfront it has been with a ridge running line FIST head and various tips.  Problem is all the loop to loop connections prevent working the fly offering all the way in to the lip, without bringing the loops throught the guides. Last fall run I had several big ones hooked up with the loops insid the guides and the rod tip. I'm experimenting with intgegrated line as I go, but with not as much distance as the skagit mix. Breaking things can happen but I'm committed.

YD

[Mike Oliver]

1 hour ago, reel em in said:

Now this is the kind of response I expect from Mr. Mike Oliver. 

Yes but do you understand the reply. I am still confused by your question. 
 If spey for rivers it makes sense. Spey for the ocean if Out Front it is a fantasy . If an inlet or estuary it will work.  But overhead is the cast which gives maximum tension and maximum range 

I saw your comments on Instructors as pretty negative. We are the guys who are most likely to be able to give the best answer . Love or hate us. I took it personally. Any qualified Instructor would been able to have addressed your question. If you google up guys like Jim Fearn and Simon Gawsesworth, and Klaus Fremor doing his demo in the USA it’s good stuff. I know few guys who fish rivers who also ply their trade in the ocean. Two hand rods and the ocean is just about in my experience the least understood section of fly casting.  Especially when it comes to the reality of it and the appropriate gear. I have done my best to share knowledge but might as well  travelled to the moon and back for the impact it has had. Why do I bother well, because I care. Answers don’t necessarily come without cost be they financial or at personal cost and trial and error because the ditch being dug is a new trench.

 

mikey

[reel em in]

Here is a picture of the shooting lines and running lines I use. The shooting line is great for distance, but hard on your hands to fight a fish. The running line is better, but more friction in the guides.  
I also used 9 foot 10wt and 12wt rods for the surf. Big upgrade to the 13 ft rod and then back down to 11 ft and was disappointed. But great rod.