Camhabib Posted September 13 Report Share Posted September 13 I’ve been trying new knots regularly and one of my favorite so far comes from fly fishing, the Orvis Knot. Quick, easy to tie, secure, and wastes very little line, more important for my fly leaders than surf. That said, I’ve rarely if ever seen it referenced for braid, only mono. This got me thinking - are there knots which are acceptable for mono but not braid? Is the Orvis one of them? Is there any way to calculate breaking strength or it’s strictly an empirically determined metric? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FallenKell Posted September 13 Report Share Posted September 13 Yes, there are knots acceptable for mono and not braid. Braid does not compress the way mono does and has a lot less friction sliding against itself. As a result there are lots of knots that worked fine for mono that do not hold with braid. DinkWrangler 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camhabib Posted September 13 Author Report Share Posted September 13 2 mins ago, FallenKell said: Yes, there are knots acceptable for mono and not braid. Braid does not compress the way mono does and has a lot less friction sliding against itself. As a result there are lots of knots that worked fine for mono that do not hold with braid. Are there any examples? I know that FG has material requirements, but that’s intended to be used with two dissimilar materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surf bomber Posted September 14 Report Share Posted September 14 I never had a polomar knot slip with either braid or mono… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frede Posted September 14 Report Share Posted September 14 For me it's an improved clinch knot with both braid and mono for, swivels, direct to hook, and TA style clips. Only caveat, I go through the eye twice with the braid....because I was told I had to a million years ago lol. For shocker to braid, it's Alberto. There's differing opinions on both knots, along with anecdotal and semi-scientific "evidence" that both knots have higher failure rates, or less strength. However, I have complete confidence in these knots due to the number of large fish they've held up to. That said, my "confidence" should also be considered anecdotal and non-scientific. ....it's more an empirical proof in the puddin thing. If memory serves, Salt Strong has Youtubes testing various knot strength. IMO, the line itself likely presents a strong variable that would have to be considered. I wonder if it can be said that knot X is superior in strength to Y, sans testing with every possible braid/mono combination... I don't know the answers, nor do I know if testing like this has been done, so I go with my empirical puddin lol. pakalolo and Camhabib 2 Salt air provides the levity needed for survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDsurffishing Posted September 14 Report Share Posted September 14 20 hours ago, Camhabib said: Are there any examples? I know that FG has material requirements, but that’s intended to be used with two dissimilar materials. Are you saying you can't use braid to braid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camhabib Posted September 15 Author Report Share Posted September 15 5 hours ago, MDsurffishing said: Are you saying you can't use braid to braid? My understanding is that the braid actually compresses into the mono, which is what provides the actual function of the knot. Can the FG be done braid to braid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDsurffishing Posted September 15 Report Share Posted September 15 (edited) 46 mins ago, Camhabib said: My understanding is that the braid actually compresses into the mono, which is what provides the actual function of the knot. Can the FG be done braid to braid? Absolutely, I've been doing it for years. So many videos of South Africans doing it and factory sponsored Penn UK! I would never go back to heavy mono. I use 80lb braid mainline and 200lb leader. Casts great and you only feel the knot when retrieving Edited September 15 by MDsurffishing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frede Posted September 15 Report Share Posted September 15 10 hours ago, Camhabib said: My understanding is that the braid actually compresses into the mono, which is what provides the actual function of the knot. Can the FG be done braid to braid? That is exactly how an FG works, and exactly why I do not feel good about the concept behind that type connection. I fish with many that use the FG and love it....they also bust on me for not using it. For lack of a better word, I prefer the "mechanical" connection of a double uni or alberto. Of course both leave you with larger knot than what you have with an FG, but at least for me, it's not a deal breaker. We all have our idiosyncrasies... EricDice 1 Salt air provides the levity needed for survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busanga Posted September 18 Report Share Posted September 18 (edited) Japanese use the FG knot braid on braid too. It works fine. Is almost exclusively what they do in SA surf fishing with heavy braid leader... and they catch monsters Edited September 18 by Busanga MDsurffishing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogfish Between Jetties Posted September 18 Report Share Posted September 18 I've always used the double uni, it's been totally reliable for me. This year I've had a guide break on two G Loomis spinning rods from the knot repetitively going through the guides. On both rods it was the second guide down. I may switch to the FG knot or just use a shorter leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stripernut1 Posted September 18 Report Share Posted September 18 Braid to Braid I use a Loop to loop with Biminis, been doing it since I got one of the first sample spools of braid in the country. Never fails and if I am using hollow core line, blind splices are the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmac Posted September 19 Report Share Posted September 19 Orvis knot is fine for braid to mono leader. I've never tried it braid to braid, but I suspect that it would perform quite well. An alternative to the Orvis knot is the J knot which is quite similar. I use it on the boat/beach when I don't have the time to tie an FG knot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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