1 piece rods - 8'10"

[Fergal]

The blank finally shipped.  It should arrive Monday or Tuesday.
 

I do t think I’ll get it done from before my Block vacation so it will be a winter project. I know it’s a simple build but I’ve got a choice - spend my time off building a rod vs fishing, fishing is going to win that one in September. But if the weather sucks, I might be able to get it done. Also, my rod building area is in the attic of my office. Maybe I can get the handle on at lunch or something. If that happens, there’s a chance that I can squeeze it in. 
 

Fwiw, I found more opinions on the rods. Many seem to really like their 8wt but the 9 much less so. 

[Mike Oliver]

Problem with opinions everyone has one. Only one counts.

 

 

mikey

[puppet]

@Fergal
interesting the blank is rated as a moderate.  I rarely hear of folk choosing a moderate flyrod.  I am curious on your application and the motivation for that blank.

 

In general I like rods that side to moderate, but don't yet own a fully moderate flyrod.

 

 

[Mike Oliver]

Puppet moderate rods can be nice. Your rod strokes will need to be very smooth and longer to avoid tailing  loops.

Mike

[numbskull]

On 9/1/2023 at 8:33 PM, slip n slide said:

A #8 SIC weighs 3X as much as an REC #8,over 6-8 guides it adds up,

 Right but you might want to consider rebuilding the rods with Torzite vs SIC.  The torzite rings are lighter, but more importantly, they have a larger internal dimension such that a size 7 Torzite KT guide has the same I.D. as an 8 SIC KT.  Combine that with the smaller frame ( even in Torzites the 7s have a significantly smaller foot print than the 8’s) and, if you use size 7 titanium frame torzites, the weight after wrapping is less than a chrome snake with two wraps/epoxy.   May not clear line snarls as well, and more prone to being bent in transport, but there are advantages as well.   I was skeptical when I first tried them but am a believer now.  

[Fergal]

1 hour ago, puppet said:

@Fergal
interesting the blank is rated as a moderate.  I rarely hear of folk choosing a moderate flyrod.  I am curious on your application and the motivation for that blank.

 

In general I like rods that side to moderate, but don't yet own a fully moderate flyrod.

 

 

I would call the Scott 9 a mod-fast, their 10 is moderate imho, it is a pleasure to cast for long periods of time. 

 

I was really interested in trying a one pc, there are two aspects to that tho - will the one pc be 'better' than a multi pc rod? Will I even like the action of that blank? One pc won't automatically make it better, it will still need to fit with what I like.

 

Blank actions are a little tough to describe accurately, at least the words get mixed up a bit. For me, moderate is a blank that will flex a good bit down the blank but I want a crisp recovery. Anything less than crisp is mushy and soft. 

[Fergal]

I do think have the info any longer but Fuji Torzites are not the lightest out there, one of the Amtaks, I think Ti nanolites are actually lighter than the torzites.

[Fergal]

For this build I'll compromise and use some single foots. The expected guides will be amtak 20-12 casting style then 10-8-7-6 single foots. I'll finish up with single foot RECs to the tip.

[slip n slide]

18 hours ago, numbskull said:

 Right but you might want to consider rebuilding the rods with Torzite vs SIC.  The torzite rings are lighter, but more importantly, they have a larger internal dimension such that a size 7 Torzite KT guide has the same I.D. as an 8 SIC KT.  Combine that with the smaller frame ( even in Torzites the 7s have a significantly smaller foot print than the 8’s) and, if you use size 7 titanium frame torzites, the weight after wrapping is less than a chrome snake with two wraps/epoxy.   May not clear line snarls as well, and more prone to being bent in transport, but there are advantages as well.   I was skeptical when I first tried them but am a believer now.  

lol,I'm not rebuilding for the sake of a guide w/ inserts that are heavier than the REC

there is no perfect guide and all have shortcomings ,we choose the features we perceive as best for our needs and desires

the light weight of the REC SF alters the rods action the least of all guides and irrefutably so

 

[numbskull]

21 hours ago, slip n slide said:

 

the light weight of the REC SF alters the rods action the least of all guides and irrefutably so

 

Right, but way less than you think particularly when you add in the weight penalty of the heavier wire tip.

Enough less that it becomes irrelevant on saltwater rods.  
Here are the top sections of the same 6wt built with single foot REC size 4s ( 15gm) then rebuilt with Fuji TKTTG size 6s (14.8gm) . Obviously wire guides are sized differently and the REC 4 has the larger I.D.  0ne less guide/wrap on the ceramic build so add 0.2 grams and the end result is the same.  Or, not.  The ceramic rod casts and fishes better.  That is the end result that matters most to many of us.

 

 

 

 

[slip n slide]

3 hours ago, numbskull said:

Right, but way less than you think particularly when you add in the weight penalty of the heavier wire tip.

Enough less that it becomes irrelevant on saltwater rods.  
Here are the top sections of the same 6wt built with single foot REC size 4s ( 15gm) then rebuilt with Fuji TKTTG size 6s (14.8gm) . Obviously wire guides are sized differently and the REC 4 has the larger I.D.  0ne less guide/wrap on the ceramic build so add 0.2 grams and the end result is the same.  Or, not.  The ceramic rod casts and fishes better.  That is the end result that matters most to many of us.

 

 

 

 

not using guides of comparable diameter is going to benefit your point...on a TiCrx ,4 pc,10 wt w/ #5 wire the tip section weighs 6gm,w/ ceramics it's 33% more @ 8gms,I can do a blind test as well w/ the weight difference in hand and action/swing weight being obvious,ceramics,being wider/thicker, also pick up more debris ( esp in FW) and dried salt on their contact points and after a days fishing the line drags more

the swing weight isn't the issue w/ me,it's how the ceramics additional weight slow the rods action

[Fergal]

The blank arrived today, in one piece, well packed. I might be able to get the handle started today. If I can get that done then i might be able to bang it out over the weekend. I have a small pile of work crap to get done first.

 

 

[numbskull]

8 hours ago, slip n slide said:

not using guides of comparable diameter is going to benefit your point...on a TiCrx ,4 pc,10 wt w/ #5 wire the tip section weighs 6gm,w/ ceramics it's 33% more @ 8gms,I can do a blind test as well w/ the weight difference in hand and action/swing weight being obvious,ceramics,being wider/thicker, also pick up more debris ( esp in FW) and dried salt on their contact points and after a days fishing the line drags more

the swing weight isn't the issue w/ me,it's how the ceramics additional weight slow the rods action

Certainly.  
That is my entire point.  IF one is willing to fish with a smaller ID torzite guide than the usual wire guide then it is possible to build a rod with similar weight tip sections and there is no change in rod action.   You won’t clear line snarls as well as with larger snakes ( single foot RECs are poor for this as well) but I can live with that.  The benefits I perceive while hauling, shooting, and handling powerful fast fish are well worth it to me.  For those considering it, I think Size 6 TKTTGs work fine on 6 and 7 wts, size 7s on 8wts and likely 9s although I’ve not built a 9 this way (yet).
 
I would not use SIC running guides (nor nonFuji stuff without comparing weights) on a fly rod for exactly the weight penalty you document.  

 

 

 

 

[Fergal]

Handle is on. I have the 10-8-7-6 single foot amtaks on the way so I’ll put the strippers and other snakes on tomorrow (I’m not fishing due to the weather). The other guides sb here Thursday, it’ll take 10 minutes to get them on. Two coats of finish on over the weekend and it’ll be done. 

Edited September 18 by Fergal

[HL]

On 8/23/2023 at 4:03 PM, numbskull said:

 

Just for interest sake I'll put this out there.

 

Some (Arden for one) advocate twisting the top three sections of a 4 piece fly rod out to 30-45 degrees when fishing it.   Doing so makes the rod shoot line better on the backcast and haul better on the forward cast by reducing blank-line contact during those periods of the cast.  With heavy saltwater lines I don't notice much difference but when trying to extend line during a backcast with a 4wt I find the improvement is quite noticeable.  Granted extending line with a 4wt is hardly a big priority, but it indicates the principle is still active with the heavier lines.  I do fool with this when fishing saltwater stuff, although I struggle with how it looks and with worries about potential problems from torsion.

 

Paul Arden only uses single foot REC Recoils on his rods.

Herb