1 piece rods - 8'10"

[Fergal]

16 hours ago, slip n slide said:

They don't keep a backlog of product,you order it,they roll it.Usually takes around 3 wks.

Great job on packing the blank for shipping;tank proof case...unlike the thin(and easily crushed) cardboard triangle Sage uses.

I like their graphite rods a lot,built several,very sensitive and responsive.The blank is unfinished/unpolished/unpainted and you can sand it to your liking.Or not.

Their glass rods are "meh" but so is most glass...best in heavier line weights.

I'm not sure about the actual specs on length,on the list it shows 106" but when you click on the specs it says it's a 9' rod....?

lol, I saw that. It has to be 8'10", that's the longest shippable size now.

 

They said three weeks or so when I ordered it, I also assumed it could be longer depending on how busy they are. I have a window of time until ~9/10 to get the rod built pretty easily. If it doesn't get done then it will likely be a winter project. That's fine too, I'm in no rush but it would be nice to have for albie season.

Edited August 26 by Fergal

[Fergal]

On 8/24/2023 at 7:32 AM, puppet said:

@numbskullwhen I read your response, I also thought it sounded like this. I guess it would definitely require one to create a special set of alignment dots.  I never was sure if spiral wrapped guides was an innovation or a gimmick on conventional rods.  I probably would not be a candidate to try it unless the manufacturer designed a rod this way.  That said, I have found my own segments helixed on a occasion so maybe I am Mr Magooing the same result of the universe is trying to tell me something and I am too stubborn to listen.

 

@FergalMost of my rod joins are in decent shape but on a couple occasions I have had them separate on sand beaches and when reconnecting I felt the dreaded sand grinding on the ferrule, even though I thought they were cleaned out.  One of my rods is in rough shape because of this and also shows some chipping on the finish on the ferrules. It is now my beater rod earmarked for rock hopping and wetsuiting.

 

Some of this is definitely user error, some of it may also be that most of my rods are in the cheaper spectrum and don't fit as nicely as the higher end ones I have.  Either way the damage caused will probably shorten the life of the rod.  If it were a one piece, I would not have these issues or need to be concerned with maintaining joins.

 

There us something liberating about the grab and go aspect of the one piece spinning rods I own.  Don't need to check seating or alignment over a session... or ever.

Other than one floors, I've never really had any issues with ferrules twisting to loosening on fly rods, some wax on the male end and things stay pretty snug. My rods only come apart for travel to Florida (I take my vehicle but I don't want the fully rods bouncing around for the train and drive).

[slip n slide]

16 mins ago, Fergal said:

lol, I saw that. It has to be 8'10", that's the longest shippable size now.

 

They said three weeks or so when I ordered it, I also assumed it could be longer depending on how busy they are. I have a window of time until ~9/10 to get the rod built pretty easily. If it doesn't get done then it will likely be a winter project. That's fine too, I'm in no rush but it would be nice to have for albie season.

winter/early spring is rod building season,orders may take a lil longer then,but right now,probably pretty close to what they said

the biggest PITA about rod building is guide spacing and it's the spacing adjacent to the ferrules that's most problematic,this should be a quick build lacking ferrules

[Fergal]

19 mins ago, slip n slide said:

winter/early spring is rod building season,orders may take a lil longer then,but right now,probably pretty close to what they said

the biggest PITA about rod building is guide spacing and it's the spacing adjacent to the ferrules that's most problematic,this should be a quick build lacking ferrules

Yup, An hour to glue up the seat and handle and then let that sit overnight. Maybe an hour to turn the handle the next day. Then, wrap about 10 small guides - that's an hour, maybe a little more. Two light coats of finish and done.

[slip n slide]

looking fwd to your impression and assessment of this blank,lookin at one of 'em myself to build this winter... they always have that end of season sale

[Mike Oliver]

9 hours ago, pnwsurf said:

Hey @Mike Oliver, I'm assuming you're talking about the fuji KT single foot running guides in titanium/torzite?  Are you putting Kw or LKW stripping guides in front of the size 10-8 runners?

 

Sorry for the sidetrack of the thread, but been wondering about this for a while now....

Hi I fit the KW Guides. They work very well. On my 9 foot 9 and 10 wts my guide train is KW16, KW12.  KT 10 , KT8 (qty 7 From memory.) Then the Titanium Tip top. This is a size 8.

Yep I was talking  the Fuji Titanium frames with Torzite centres. I like the Torzites over the sic as lighter and you get a slighter bigger ID of the ceramic for a given size.

For 7 and 8 wt rods I would use a size 7 Torzite as the main part of the chain. Tip top size 7 as well. Strippers 16 and 12.

 

I love these guides and the T- SG before them. The SG have a more flexible frame which can be a useful attribute.

Why rods costing over $1000 do not carry Torzite guides is a puzzle. It is mostly us custom builders that have adopted them big time. I find it quite impossible to fit snakes to my own rods and would find it difficult to fit them for a customers when requested to do so. Prehistoric twisted bits of wire don’t fit well with carbon substrates or even S Glass.

mike

[slip n slide]

On 8/26/2023 at 9:56 AM, Mike Oliver said:

Hi I fit the KW Guides. They work very well. On my 9 foot 9 and 10 wts my guide train is KW16, KW12.  KT 10 , KT8 (qty 7 From memory.) Then the Titanium Tip top. This is a size 8.

Yep I was talking  the Fuji Titanium frames with Torzite centres. I like the Torzites over the sic as lighter and you get a slighter bigger ID of the ceramic for a given size.

For 7 and 8 wt rods I would use a size 7 Torzite as the main part of the chain. Tip top size 7 as well. Strippers 16 and 12.

 

I love these guides and the T- SG before them. The SG have a more flexible frame which can be a useful attribute.

Why rods costing over $1000 do not carry Torzite guides is a puzzle. It is mostly us custom builders that have adopted them big time. I find it quite impossible to fit snakes to my own rods and would find it difficult to fit them for a customers when requested to do so. Prehistoric twisted bits of wire don’t fit well with carbon substrates or even S Glass.

mike

I think what puts most off on the ceramic guides is the added weight and how it affecs the rods action.To wit: I have the same rod(actually two dif rods,a 9 1/2',5wt and 9',10 wt, so 4 total to compare by),one outfitted w/ ceramics and the other ceramic stripper/tip but the rest are SF wire guides.It's like two dif rods when casting,the rod w/ the ceramics is def slower and certainly weighs more,esp the 10 wt cuz I used larger guides.I appreciate what the ceramics offer but I like the rods behavior better w/ the wire guides.

[Mike Oliver]

Slip it is like the wind with right or left hand debate to a degree. A Titanium wire single leg guide which has same ID as a ceramic is going to weigh slightly less. If we compare with a two footed snake guide which has the addition of more tying thread and epoxy then the difference will be smaller.

I agree that people with good hands can feel the difference. Does this difference equate to any measurable parameter like distance and or accuracy. Some SL wire guides have no stand off. REC come to mind so line contact with the blank will happen when casting unless we cast Chinese style. With snakes and when double hauling I will cast Chinese style to reduce rod line contact. Thin wire snakes and thin wire SL will wear more quickly and cause fly line damage. Ceramics good ones last for many years. It depends which parameters are the most important to the individual. My CTS 9 and 10 wt Affinity MX have the slightly heavier Fuji T-SG which have sic centres compared to the latest Torzite which is lighter and has a slightly bigger ID for a given size. On my 9 and 10 wts the smallest running guide is a size 8 with the sic centre. I am considering dropping to a size 7 with the Torzite to reduce weight. Or I can use a size 8 and take the bigger ID. I have to say that the MX does not feel sluggish because of the ceramics. They do not stop me casting very long lines. The fly line is going to have a bigger influence I think. Someone using a one size line up from myself and putting the same amount of line into the air and at the same speed will have a bigger effect than the tiny amount of extra weight of a SL Torzite guide.

It does  border on semantics but semantics are/ can be interesting and fun. New guys are unlikely to be noticing the effects of guide mass but as feel develops experienced guys can. But does it mean anything. 
I always come back to the no matter what we do with a rod how many can make that holy grail 90 feet cast. I will re iterate it is a personal choice and we all have our own reasons when we make that choice. But darn it I just can’t abide snakes full stop. SL wire I can tolerate but not my first choice.

Did you read my email of today.

 

mike

Edited August 28 by Mike Oliver

[iklu]

@Mike Oliver can you talk about guide wear a little more? I've heard some real horror stories of guides wearing and grooving after casting on lawn or pavement, due to very abrasive grit combined with a dry fly line. However, do guides really wear when a rod is used only in the water? Also, according to Akos of Stickman, recoil guides tend to wear quicker than hard chrome guides. So, discounting a guide getting crushed or bent, what causes guide wear in fishing situations, and how quickly can one really expect to see it?

 

[Mike Oliver]

Iklu I have not done a full evaluation of guide wear so cant give you a definitive answer. Dry fly line and pavement is not a good combination. Both fly line and guides are going to wear prematurely. Now I have been casting for over two years a Sage factory rod fitted with  snake guides on grass whilst having lessons and practicing. Unavoidable as typically I would not choose to cast over grass. I have not seen or felt any guide wear.

Yes guides do wear in fresh or salt water. I have rods which have very badly worn snake guides which was one of the reasons for moving away from them plus line drag on the blank when double hauling. When fishing we have a combination of salt, water and sand and grit. I can’t count the times when my fly line has blown out of the line tray onto sand or when landing fish. The sand gets on our hands  to in some situations and then onto the line. The next few casts are horrible until the sand gets washed off. Even in optimal conditions eventually wire guides will wear. The tip top is very prone to wear.

I spend many hours building a rod and I only want to do it once so wire guides on rods I make are never going to be a part of the build. I have factory rods with snakes and know one day I will have the laborious job of removing them and then tying on SL Torzites.  How quickly we might see wear depends on usage plus how much sand and grit gets onto the fly line. Plus did we clean the line often. A big factor is the quality of the wire guide and in particular its plating. Almost impossible to predict when a wire guide will need replacing. I just do not have that concern with high quality ceramics. 
The only ceramics that I have found which allows the fly line to pass over them well is Fuji Sic or Fuji Torzite. 
 

mike
 

Edited August 29 by Mike Oliver

[slip n slide]

On 8/29/2023 at 10:31 AM, iklu said:

@Mike Oliver can you talk about guide wear a little more? I've heard some real horror stories of guides wearing and grooving after casting on lawn or pavement, due to very abrasive grit combined with a dry fly line. However, do guides really wear when a rod is used only in the water? Also, according to Akos of Stickman, recoil guides tend to wear quicker than hard chrome guides. So, discounting a guide getting crushed or bent, what causes guide wear in fishing situations, and how quickly can one really expect to see it?

 

I've never worn out a ceramic but I've had Recoils break when hit by an errant,wind-blown cast/fly as well as wearing through from having a line w/ sand stuck to it repeatedly running through the guides,esp true fishing open beaches like Jersey and Montauk.

[slip n slide]

On 8/28/2023 at 3:41 PM, Mike Oliver said:

Slip it is like the wind with right or left hand debate to a degree. A Titanium wire single leg guide which has same ID as a ceramic is going to weigh slightly less. If we compare with a two footed snake guide which has the addition of more tying thread and epoxy then the difference will be smaller.

I agree that people with good hands can feel the difference. Does this difference equate to any measurable parameter like distance and or accuracy. Some SL wire guides have no stand off. REC come to mind so line contact with the blank will happen when casting unless we cast Chinese style. With snakes and when double hauling I will cast Chinese style to reduce rod line contact. Thin wire snakes and thin wire SL will wear more quickly and cause fly line damage. Ceramics good ones last for many years. It depends which parameters are the most important to the individual. My CTS 9 and 10 wt Affinity MX have the slightly heavier Fuji T-SG which have sic centres compared to the latest Torzite which is lighter and has a slightly bigger ID for a given size. On my 9 and 10 wts the smallest running guide is a size 8 with the sic centre. I am considering dropping to a size 7 with the Torzite to reduce weight. Or I can use a size 8 and take the bigger ID. I have to say that the MX does not feel sluggish because of the ceramics. They do not stop me casting very long lines. The fly line is going to have a bigger influence I think. Someone using a one size line up from myself and putting the same amount of line into the air and at the same speed will have a bigger effect than the tiny amount of extra weight of a SL Torzite guide.

It does  border on semantics but semantics are/ can be interesting and fun. New guys are unlikely to be noticing the effects of guide mass but as feel develops experienced guys can. But does it mean anything. 
I always come back to the no matter what we do with a rod how many can make that holy grail 90 feet cast. I will re iterate it is a personal choice and we all have our own reasons when we make that choice. But darn it I just can’t abide snakes full stop. SL wire I can tolerate but not my first choice.

Did you read my email of today.

 

mike

Never been a fan of the snake w/ it's double wraps and open back.

I tend to roll my wrist to the side on my backcast to give myself more leverage on the fwd cast and so end up w/ the guides "off axis" in regards to the plane of the lines travel but that affects the shoot on the back cast,not the fwd where it really counts.

A #8 SIC weighs 3X as much as an REC #8,over 6-8 guides it adds up,just not really sure about any actual effect that weight may have upon the cast so much as it slows the rods rate of recovery bcz of the added weight.W/ that said,I like a slower rod.

 

[DAQ]

Just stumbled onto the SawGrass rods website. They produce one piece rods from 5-12 wts on NFC blanks with Cerecoil guides. Prices seem reasonable too. Wish I could get my hands on some to check out.

[Fergal]

It's looking less likely that I will see this blank in time to get it done for the fall. There's some grumbling about delays on some other sites. I would need the blank in hand before next weekend, that doesn't seem likely.

 

FWIW, the 8wt blank seems to get some praise, other models less so.

[PeteD]

 The one piece Hardy rods are the best rod I have ever used. I have 4 of them, all 9 Wts.  I know a guide who had GLoomis one piece rods and wondered if they still made them.