Hooks for old Gibbs "Dumpstah Dee-lite" Pencil?

[Southcoastphil]

1.5 oz., 6.25"

Spec for current version is a pair of cut 2/0s. I don't know which hook they use, but they appear to be longer than the VMC 9626 4X that I have in the fish cave.  Plan is to have a belly treble and a neutered (either lollipopped or hook points cut off below the barbs) treble on the tail.  Leaning toward cut hooks for swing/momentum (so I've read), but split rings are NP.  (Let's skip any "How strong are cut hooks?" discussion, OK?)

 

Is there any significant penalty if I up the hook size by one (to 3/0) for better hook exposure?

 

TIA, as always, for your help

--Phil

 

PS.  I did indeed rescue "DD" from a dumpster while looking for appliance warranty documents for a new neighor.  (Her (totally nitwit) contractors had *put them back into the cartons* before tossing the cartons in with the construction debris.)  She (the plug, not the neighbor) was more Dee-Zasstah than Dee-lite--pretty filthy and banged up a bit.  After some cleaning, epoxy sealing and a couple coats of Sparks Will Fly (couldn't find any nail polish in "Gibbs blue", but this was close enough for me) she just needs a final epoxy topcoat and some hooks before I let her fly right into Buzzards Bay.  

[TimS]

3 mins ago, Southcoastphil said:

 

I don't know how many decades ago they stopped painting eyes on them....but I suspect it's longer ago than we were born  

 

If you are gonna fish it, stick a 4/0 VMC on the front and a bucktailed tag on the back...they swim pretty that way...

[Southcoastphil]

1 min ago, TimS said:

I don't know how many decades ago they stopped painting eyes on them....but I suspect it's longer ago than we were born  

 

If you are gonna fish it, stick a 4/0 VMC on the front and a bucktailed tag on the back...they swim pretty that way...

Hello there, Mr. S.!

 

Thanks for the input.  I think they're decals, not painted.  

 

I'm a fan of tail flags, for sure, usually on a (cheapo) split ring so they lie right up against the plug body in flight.  Having a pair of cut hooks, however, would aid in the side to side swing, so I've read, though I can't say that I've seen it with my own eyes (just never looked that closely).  Heck, most of the pencils I used to throw at the ditch were canal rigged, so how "disconnected" were those belly hooks??

 

[TimS]

I'd expect a pencil to swing/swim better with a heavy front hook to sort of anchor the plug and a light ass to swing around that pivot - but that's just a personal suspicion  Many pugs benefit from a lighter ass with a bucktailed tag on the back...they just swim sexier that way...and you don't need to worry about that second treble when you are landing them

 

[Southcoastphil]

9 mins ago, TimS said:

don't need to worry about that second treble

Since I'll neuter that tail treble, I never worried about it.  (I do appreciate your concern, though.)

[TimS]

4 mins ago, Southcoastphil said:

Since I'll neuter that tail treble, I never worried about it.  (I do appreciate your concern, though.)

I meant in general, not you personally   Less trebles = less things to get stuck in your palm with a 15# gator thrashing around...

[iwantmypie]

I had Wayne at Guppy once tell me to try out something similar with his 2oz pencil. They come stock with two 2/0 trebles but mentioned taking off the tail hook completely and bumping the belly hook to a 3/0. It’s the only way I fish them now and I would assume a similar practice would work just fine for most pencils. 

[Ditch Jigger]

21 hours ago, TimS said:

I don't know how many decades ago they stopped painting eyes on them....but I suspect it's longer ago than we were born  

 

If you are gonna fish it, stick a 4/0 VMC on the front and a bucktailed tag on the back...they swim pretty that way...

 

I believe that those were stick-on eyes that were then clear coated over, when Stan was still making them. John Gibbs and Jim Griecci continued to use the painted eyes that we're more familiar with. Once, when bass didn't want anything buy a yellow pencil with the red painted eye, John joked to me that he was going to have his new white 4Runner painted yellow with a red circle on the front quarter panel, over the wheel.  

I think their plugs went "blind" under the current ownership.

[Southcoastphil]

15 hours ago, Ditch Jigger said:

I believe that those were stick-on eyes that were then clear coated over

That's exactly what they look like to me.

[Southcoastphil]

On 6/6/2023 at 9:24 PM, iwantmypie said:

taking off the tail hook completely and bumping the belly hook to a 3/0

With now two votes for 3/0 belly, it looks like I'll go with 3/0 belly on split ring w/flag tail.  

 

Thanks guys.

 

[Wire For Fire]

2/0 belly 5/0 siwash tail 

[Southcoastphil]

4 hours ago, Wire For Fire said:

2/0 belly 5/0 siwash tail 

Gonna skip the hook on the arse end.  

[Wire For Fire]

45 mins ago, Southcoastphil said:

Gonna skip the hook on the arse end.  

I get your reasoning . But i feel like they pencil better with it .. and I can’t tell ya how many fish come hooked on just the single rear hook .. nice quick clean releases 

[Southcoastphil]

1 hour ago, Wire For Fire said:

I get your reasoning . But i feel like they pencil better with it .. and I can’t tell ya how many fish come hooked on just the single rear hook .. nice quick clean releases 

 

I agree that a tail hook could help the "penciling" or "swing" as I referred to it:

On 6/6/2023 at 7:29 PM, Southcoastphil said:

Having a pair of cut hooks, however, would aid in the side to side swing, so I've read, though I can't say that I've seen it with my own eyes (just never looked that closely).

 

It's not like whatever I do is irreversible, so if it doesn't swing, or if I can't get the steel into a significant % of strikes, it'll be a dressed 5/0 (or larger, if necessary) on the tail.