Old Maine Slot Info

[Pearl Bomber]

I remember when Maine had a 21-26” slot, with a 40” plus trophy allowed, correct? Possibly two slot fish per day?

Does anyone here know the science behind this and how Maine came to adopt their own slot regs? To me this makes a lot of sense, the only critique I would add is 1 slot fish per day. 
They had to drop when all states had to require a saltwater license correct? It went to (2) at 28 and above…spiraling to what we have now, correct?

Any info is appreciated.

 

[stripedbassking]

On 5/22/2023 at 7:10 PM, Pearl Bomber said:

I remember when Maine had a 21-26” slot, with a 40” plus trophy allowed, correct? Possibly two slot fish per day?

Does anyone here know the science behind this and how Maine came to adopt their own slot regs? To me this makes a lot of sense, the only critique I would add is 1 slot fish per day. 
They had to drop when all states had to require a saltwater license correct? It went to (2) at 28 and above…spiraling to what we have now, correct?

Any info is appreciated.

 

If I remember correctly it was EITHER one fish from 20-26 OR 1 fish over 40”. I believe it use to be just one fish but it had to meet the criteria of one of those options. And then it went to One fish 28”+. Then to one fish at 28-35”  and Now currently it’s one fish 28-31”. At least that’s my recollection

[Skunkoff]

On 5/22/2023 at 8:26 PM, stripedbassking said:

If I remember correctly it was EITHER one fish from 20-26 OR 1 fish over 40”. I believe it use to be just one fish but it had to meet the criteria of one of those options. And then it went to One fish 28”+. Then to one fish at 28-35”  and Now currently it’s one fish 28-31”. At least that’s my recollection

I believe you're correct.  But I think it was 34" not 35".

[Scott Charlton]

On 5/22/2023 at 8:26 PM, stripedbassking said:

If I remember correctly it was EITHER one fish from 20-26 OR 1 fish over 40”. I believe it use to be just one fish but it had to meet the criteria of one of those options. And then it went to One fish 28”+. Then to one fish at 28-35”  and Now currently it’s one fish 28-31”. At least that’s my recollection

you are correct.  One fish per day, between 20 - 26" or greater than 40".  That's what it was when I moved here in 2001.

[Sea Of Atlas]

The idea is “conservation equivalency” the trade off for what was probably 2 @ 28” at the time. 

[Roccus7]

On 5/22/2023 at 8:59 PM, Scott Charlton said:

you are correct.  One fish per day, between 20 - 26" or greater than 40".  That's what it was when I moved here in 2001.

 

On 5/22/2023 at 7:10 PM, Pearl Bomber said:

I remember when Maine had a 21-26” slot, with a 40” plus trophy allowed, correct? Possibly two slot fish per day?

Does anyone here know the science behind this and how Maine came to adopt their own slot regs? To me this makes a lot of sense, the only critique I would add is 1 slot fish per day. 
They had to drop when all states had to require a saltwater license correct? It went to (2) at 28 and above…spiraling to what we have now, correct?

Any info is appreciated.

 

 

Both correct.

 

It actually STARTED with one at the 20-26" slot AND one 40" and over, and then was reduced to one 20-26" OR one 40" and over a few years later.  I was always stymied in that I usually caught one mid-30" fish during that time...

[CWitek]

The low end of the slot was due to the big 1993 year class, which was not yet 28 inches long when the rule went into effect.

 

After the stock was declared rebuilt in 1995, states began abandoning their 36-inch minimum sizes for the 2 @ 28" permitted by the new Amendment 5 to the management plan.  It happened at different times in differrent states, with New England typically lagging the mid-Atlantic states.

 

I don't recall whether Maine ever dropped to 28" before initiating the slot.  However, I did know someone up in Maine who was very active, and reasonably influential, with the state fishery management process back then.  While he was more or less a fly fisherman, he had a very firm opinion that rank and file anglers, who he referred to as "the ham and eggers," ought to be able to take a fish home, but that the 28-inch minimum didn't give them a shot at the 1993s.  Thus, after consultations with the state, the original Maine slot was born.

 

In the retelling, Maine adopted the slot as a means to protect female baass that had already entered the spawning stock.  However, that is revisionist history.  The original reason was to give Maine anglers "a fish to take home for dinner" when other species were not readily available.

 

It's interesting to note that the same individual ultimately founded an organizatrion dedicated to ending the commercial fishery for striped bass; its website still cites lowering the recreational size limit, so that it is easier to find a legal bass that an angler can take home, as one of the benefits of shutting down the commercial harvest.

[Sea Of Atlas]

I don’t know of anyone that kept a 40” + at all when the slot was in place. Whether real or imagined I see a lot of striped bass anglers in Maine speak up for striped bass observation. Maine has killed a lot of the 20 to 26” fish. However if we had population numbers like NY or NJ no doubt we’d be killing tons more fish. What I do find special about Maine is that we have fish that are rarely/never targeted and likely will never be studied (Washington, Hancock county etc).

[mikez2]

The old Maine slot was a disaster. 

I have never seen such an explosion of new anglers nor such a drastic harvest.

 

Virtually 100% of anyone who wanted to kill a striper could get a keeper 100% of trips. 

Meat fishermen came out of the woodwork.

Every zebco special or mono wrapped beer can could kill a striper.

 

In my opinion, the bout wiped out the fish that were imprinted to migrate to Maine as well as the breeding Kennebec population. 

 

If you were there, you remember what happened next.

I swear it's only recently that Maine seems to be getting its stripers back. 

[Pearl Bomber]

On 5/23/2023 at 8:29 AM, CWitek said:

The low end of the slot was due to the big 1993 year class, which was not yet 28 inches long when the rule went into effect.

 

After the stock was declared rebuilt in 1995, states began abandoning their 36-inch minimum sizes for the 2 @ 28" permitted by the new Amendment 5 to the management plan.  It happened at different times in differrent states, with New England typically lagging the mid-Atlantic states.

 

I don't recall whether Maine ever dropped to 28" before initiating the slot.  However, I did know someone up in Maine who was very active, and reasonably influential, with the state fishery management process back then.  While he was more or less a fly fisherman, he had a very firm opinion that rank and file anglers, who he referred to as "the ham and eggers," ought to be able to take a fish home, but that the 28-inch minimum didn't give them a shot at the 1993s.  Thus, after consultations with the state, the original Maine slot was born.

 

In the retelling, Maine adopted the slot as a means to protect female baass that had already entered the spawning stock.  However, that is revisionist history.  The original reason was to give Maine anglers "a fish to take home for dinner" when other species were not readily available.

 

It's interesting to note that the same individual ultimately founded an organizatrion dedicated to ending the commercial fishery for striped bass; its website still cites lowering the recreational size limit, so that it is easier to find a legal bass that an angler can take home, as one of the benefits of shutting down the commercial harvest.

This is very interesting and informative. I have to admit, I was looking at this from a increase biomass perspective in that there are more juvenile fish so a fish from this population demographic would not be as impactful as a larger fish from a smaller population sub set. I can see the argument that the larger population is only smaller because people are allowed to keep smaller fish. I was thinking more along the lines of natural predation and other environmental factors leading to smaller numbers of larger fish (and obviously fisherman). 
These sorts of dialog help present a bigger picture.
I’m curious, what was the “other fish” that was in decline at the time? Atlantic Salmon? Sea Run Browns? Inland fish? Blues? There aren’t a lot of other fish in the coastal water in upper NE, as compared to south of us. Unless we’re talking off shore ground fish or mackerel, which I wouldn’t put in the same category.
Thanks 

[Pearl Bomber]

On 5/24/2023 at 9:08 AM, mikez2 said:

The old Maine slot was a disaster. 

I have never seen such an explosion of new anglers nor such a drastic harvest.

 

Virtually 100% of anyone who wanted to kill a striper could get a keeper 100% of trips. 

Meat fishermen came out of the woodwork.

Every zebco special or mono wrapped beer can could kill a striper.

 

In my opinion, the bout wiped out the fish that were imprinted to migrate to Maine as well as the breeding Kennebec population. 

 

If you were there, you remember what happened next.

I swear it's only recently that Maine seems to be getting its stripers back. 

This too is a very eye opening explanation. I suppose I was looking at this from a rational, take only what you need approach and not keep em all the time, day after day.  Again, responsible harvest from a larger population and protecting the larger breeding fish. This was before social media, but word spreads fast…
How does this compare to the Redfish slot down south? Isn’t the idea with the Redfish slot to cull from a larger class of available fish to protect those that make it through for regeneration purposes? 
https://www.seagrantfish.lsu.edu/pdfs/factsheets/redfish.pdf

 

[mikez2]

On 5/24/2023 at 9:40 AM, Pearl Bomber said:

This too is a very eye opening explanation. I suppose I was looking at this from a rational, take only what you need approach and not keep em all the time, day after day.  Again, responsible harvest from a larger population and protecting the larger breeding fish. This was before social media, but word spreads fast…
How does this compare to the Redfish slot down south? Isn’t the idea with the Redfish slot to cull from a larger class of available fish to protect those that make it through for regeneration purposes? 
https://www.seagrantfish.lsu.edu/pdfs/factsheets/redfish.pdf

 

That slot was like an invitation:

 

"come to Maine and eat stripers".

 

At the time, myself and my family took as much advantage as we could. 

On camping trips it was our ritual to take the little kids out so they could get "keepers" to bring back to camp. The kids loved the attention. We all loved the eating. 

 

The point being; we knew we were sure to kill a fish every time out if we wanted. Even if it were little kids doing the fishing. 

 

 

Edited May 24 by mikez2

[CWitek]

On 5/24/2023 at 9:30 AM, Pearl Bomber said:

This is very interesting and informative. I have to admit, I was looking at this from a increase biomass perspective in that there are more juvenile fish so a fish from this population demographic would not be as impactful as a larger fish from a smaller population sub set. I can see the argument that the larger population is only smaller because people are allowed to keep smaller fish. I was thinking more along the lines of natural predation and other environmental factors leading to smaller numbers of larger fish (and obviously fisherman). 
These sorts of dialog help present a bigger picture.
I’m curious, what was the “other fish” that was in decline at the time? Atlantic Salmon? Sea Run Browns? Inland fish? Blues? There aren’t a lot of other fish in the coastal water in upper NE, as compared to south of us. Unless we’re talking off shore ground fish or mackerel, which I wouldn’t put in the same category.
Thanks 

The winter flounder was starting to slide, and bluefish weren't doing too well at the time.

 

The focus was on inshore species that could be easily caught by the average angler, so salmon and trout weren't part of the discussion, which was more about things like flounder, bluefish, and harbor pollock.

[CWitek]

On 5/24/2023 at 9:40 AM, Pearl Bomber said:

This too is a very eye opening explanation. I suppose I was looking at this from a rational, take only what you need approach and not keep em all the time, day after day.  Again, responsible harvest from a larger population and protecting the larger breeding fish. This was before social media, but word spreads fast…
How does this compare to the Redfish slot down south? Isn’t the idea with the Redfish slot to cull from a larger class of available fish to protect those that make it through for regeneration purposes? 
https://www.seagrantfish.lsu.edu/pdfs/factsheets/redfish.pdf

 

People often bring up redfish when talking about bass regulations, but the species' life histories are different.

 

Bass are a coastal fish.  Within broad limits, you can catch a rat and a 50 in the same bay, at the same time, throughout the season.

 

Redfish don't work that way.  While the big fish spend time inshore, that's generally on a seasonal basis, with the mature adults spending much of their lives farther out in the ocean; that's why purse seiners targeting the offshore fish were so devastating to Gulf of Mexico redfish stocks back in the 1970s.

 

So when managers talk about redfish sizes, they talk about "escapement" of juvenile fish into not only the adult population, but the offshore fish as well (as is the case with striped bass, redfish may not be harvested, nor even targeted, in the EEZ).  A fish that "escapes" is also fairly free of angling pressure for much of the year.  Even so, most Atlantic states aren't hitting their escaptement targets.   Managers are looking for something like 40% escapement, and Florida is achieving that or at least getting close.  Other states are not.  There has been recent concern in both South Carolina and Georgia that more restrictive measures are needed.

[Pearl Bomber]

On 5/24/2023 at 10:15 AM, CWitek said:

People often bring up redfish when talking about bass regulations, but the species' life histories are different.

 

Bass are a coastal fish.  Within broad limits, you can catch a rat and a 50 in the same bay, at the same time, throughout the season.

 

Redfish don't work that way.  While the big fish spend time inshore, that's generally on a seasonal basis, with the mature adults spending much of their lives farther out in the ocean; that's why purse seiners targeting the offshore fish were so devastating to Gulf of Mexico redfish stocks back in the 1970s.

 

So when managers talk about redfish sizes, they talk about "escapement" of juvenile fish into not only the adult population, but the offshore fish as well (as is the case with striped bass, redfish may not be harvested, nor even targeted, in the EEZ).  A fish that "escapes" is also fairly free of angling pressure for much of the year.  Even so, most Atlantic states aren't hitting their escaptement targets.   Managers are looking for something like 40% escapement, and Florida is achieving that or at least getting close.  Other states are not.  There has been recent concern in both South Carolina and Georgia that more restrictive measures are needed.

Thanks for your explanation, polite responses and patience, it is much appreciated!