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Nj Sharking

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Wilk

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I want to get into some big shark fishing like threshers and makos(I know you're not supposed to catch makos right now) off of NJ. I have been shark fishing before catching duskies, browns, blacktips, and spinners up to about eight feet. Every time we caught them we were using big striper tackle, avet sx, seigler sg, and 6000 size spinninng reels and we used 80-100lb mono for leader with a circle hook and this handled them with no problem. But I know this will not handle a proper shark so I wanted to know some general stuff such as reel size, rod power, what pound main line, how to set up baits, if wire is required, and how to land a thresher. I have heard generally a 30 size conventional for a thresher and a 50 for makos. I was wondering if a tld 20 or 25 would work for threshers and maybe an occasional mako or if this is just too light. 

Edited by Wilk
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I've been shark fishing for about 45 years, mostly off Long Island, NY, although I started up in Rhode Island, and have probably caught the fish on just about everything over the years.

 

Whoever is giving you advice got things a little bit backwards; the average thresher runs quite a bit bigger than the average mako, and is probably the fish you want to be rigging for.  A 50-pound standup outfit is a good compromise for shark, and will handle anything that you might run into, while not completely overpowering the smaller stuff.  We've often fished 20s on sandbars, blues, and small (up to 125 pounds or so) makos, but a big thresher will completely overpower you with gear that light.  I hooked a 400-class thresher a few years ago on a 30, and it took about 3 1/2 hours to get the fish to the boat; my wireman couldn't hold on, and I ended up on the fish for another hour.  So if you're targeting threshers, fishing anything less than a 30 won't get the job done.  Makos are less of an issue.  Although there are some large ones out there, most of the fish you'll run into these days will be under 200--many won't break 100--and a 30 would serve.  However, given my experience over the last few years, you'll run into many more big threshers than big makos.

 

As for specific gear, I'm probably less of a help, as I use older Penn Internationals and rods that I built myself.  However, I take out a research team from Stony Brook University, and they bring their own gear that has worked pretty well.  They use black lever-drag Penns--I'm guessing Penn Fathoms--on Penn stand up rods.  I suspect that they're using the larger Fathom 60s.  The reels are loaded with 50 pound mono--looks like clear Ande.  We're regularly catching and tagging decent-sized threshers on that gear--the fish in my photo is a 250-class thresher that we beat in about 40 minutes--so it should get the job done for you.

 

:Leaders are 15 feet of single-strand #14 wire.  Hooks are #18/0 circles--if you can get the Eagle Claws, they work well at a reasonable cost.  A bolt cutter to cut through the hooks when releasing fish is a big help.  You'll need a good pair of gloves for handling the wire, a chum pail, and if you're planning to kill a fish, a flying gaff and tail ropes.  Also a belt and harness--a big thresher will cause you untold pain if you leave the harness behind.

 

Bait is simple.  While fresh bait is always better, a nose-hooked frozen mackerel will work.  Fresh bluefish fillets, or a live chub mackerel caught on the spot, are better, as are live bunker or a fresh-dead bunker caught on the way out, or a ling caught while you're drifting.

 

I fish a four-rod pattern.  One bait is rigged with then swivel 30-45 feet under a float, 100-150 feet into the slick.  One is 60-75 feet under a float, halfway between the first float and the boat.  One is fished off the rod tip, with 125 to 150 feet of line out.  The last is right under the chum pail, with 20-25 feet of line out.  While all lines will get hit, the one right under the pail usually sees the most action, with the long shallow line, middle line, and deep line probably following in that order.

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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23 hours ago, CWitek said:

I've been shark fishing for about 45 years, mostly off Long Island, NY, although I started up in Rhode Island, and have probably caught the fish on just about everything over the years.

 

Whoever is giving you advice got things a little bit backwards; the average thresher runs quite a bit bigger than the average mako, and is probably the fish you want to be rigging for.  A 50-pound standup outfit is a good compromise for shark, and will handle anything that you might run into, while not completely overpowering the smaller stuff.  We've often fished 20s on sandbars, blues, and small (up to 125 pounds or so) makos, but a big thresher will completely overpower you with gear that light.  I hooked a 400-class thresher a few years ago on a 30, and it took about 3 1/2 hours to get the fish to the boat; my wireman couldn't hold on, and I ended up on the fish for another hour.  So if you're targeting threshers, fishing anything less than a 30 won't get the job done.  Makos are less of an issue.  Although there are some large ones out there, most of the fish you'll run into these days will be under 200--many won't break 100--and a 30 would serve.  However, given my experience over the last few years, you'll run into many more big threshers than big makos.

 

As for specific gear, I'm probably less of a help, as I use older Penn Internationals and rods that I built myself.  However, I take out a research team from Stony Brook University, and they bring their own gear that has worked pretty well.  They use black lever-drag Penns--I'm guessing Penn Fathoms--on Penn stand up rods.  I suspect that they're using the larger Fathom 60s.  The reels are loaded with 50 pound mono--looks like clear Ande.  We're regularly catching and tagging decent-sized threshers on that gear--the fish in my photo is a 250-class thresher that we beat in about 40 minutes--so it should get the job done for you.

 

:Leaders are 15 feet of single-strand #14 wire.  Hooks are #18/0 circles--if you can get the Eagle Claws, they work well at a reasonable cost.  A bolt cutter to cut through the hooks when releasing fish is a big help.  You'll need a good pair of gloves for handling the wire, a chum pail, and if you're planning to kill a fish, a flying gaff and tail ropes.  Also a belt and harness--a big thresher will cause you untold pain if you leave the harness behind.

 

Bait is simple.  While fresh bait is always better, a nose-hooked frozen mackerel will work.  Fresh bluefish fillets, or a live chub mackerel caught on the spot, are better, as are live bunker or a fresh-dead bunker caught on the way out, or a ling caught while you're drifting.

 

I fish a four-rod pattern.  One bait is rigged with then swivel 30-45 feet under a float, 100-150 feet into the slick.  One is 60-75 feet under a float, halfway between the first float and the boat.  One is fished off the rod tip, with 125 to 150 feet of line out.  The last is right under the chum pail, with 20-25 feet of line out.  While all lines will get hit, the one right under the pail usually sees the most action, with the long shallow line, middle line, and deep line probably following in that order.

Awesome thanks for your info that helps a lot. I have a few more questions, do you run all mono for main line or could braid work too? And do you use sinkers to help keep the weight down or do you drift the bait out and then set a balloon? Also is wire necessary or could I get away with heavy mono? And why do you run 15 feet of wire is this necessary or could I get away with 5 feet of leader?

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33 mins ago, Wilk said:

Awesome thanks for your info that helps a lot. I have a few more questions, do you run all mono for main line or could braid work too? And do you use sinkers to help keep the weight down or do you drift the bait out and then set a balloon? Also is wire necessary or could I get away with heavy mono? And why do you run 15 feet of wire is this necessary or could I get away with 5 feet of leader?

I run straight mono.  You could use braid, but I never saw the need for it; you're not casting, and you're not trying to fish light lures/sinkers deep, so braid provides no advantage.  On the other hand, it seems to be less abrasion-resistant, which can present problems, and also has no stretch, which can work against you if, say, a mako gets acrobatic on a short line.

 

I have used sinkers, but generally don't.  The pattern I described puts you in a position where all three baits on the main lines are vertically stratified, one drifting above/below the other, which is a good placement that gets the attention of fish anywhere in the cone of the slick (the short line under the chum can deals with the fish that somehow miss those three and ends up  next to the boat; you'll see articles talk about keeping a "pitch bait" ready for those fish, but that never made sense to me, as the bait under the chum can is already ready and waiting, and doesn't require you to spot the fish before a bait is deployed).  The only time you might want to use a sinker is if you're fishing over deep structure, deploy a second, sunken chum can, and want a bait down at its level.  But as a beginning shark fisherman, you're not going to do that--I don't, even now--although some very good sharkers used to do it when targeting big tiger sharks over deep wrecks back in the '70s and '80s.  Some people like to use sinkers to keep baits down on a fast drift, but when the drift is that fast, the chum will be closer to the surface, too, and sinkers can push one or more of your baits below the lower edge of the slick.  I don't use balloons, because they leave scraps in the water when they break, which can be mistakenn for chum and eatem by shearwaters, etc.  They also don't always completely detach from the line.  These days, we generally fish purpose-made cylindrical styrofoam shark flots, which are adjustable and detach to slide freely along the line once a fish comes tight.

 

If you're targeting bigger fish, wire should be seen as necessary.  I know people who use 400 pound mono, trusting that the circle hooks will keep their leaders away from the fish's teeth, and that usually works, but the key word is "usually."  Some fish will still bite through--often the largest fish that you most want to catch--and fish can roll in the leader and chafe through on a long fight.  I've unrolled more than one shark that I've caught after it chafed through someone else's heavy mono leader; in some cases, the leader had wound so tightly around the fish's body that it had cut through the skin and left raw, bloody lesions.  So yes, stick with wire.

 

And no, you won't get away with five feet of wire, particularly on bigger fish.  Remember that sharks' skin is covered with "dermal denticles," which roughly translates into "little skin teeth."  Those denticles will chew through your line very quickly--even faster if you use braid rather than mono.  So you want a leader longer than your fish, to keep that from happening.  If you're fishing for threshers, you need to include the tail in that calculation, because a thresher's tail will quickly abrade your main line.  A 400-pound thresher is roughly 15 feet long from nose tip to the end of its tail, so...  In addition, sharks will roll, and wrap themselves up in the leader, and eventually the line.  I've had 6-foot blue sharks roll up so badly that I only had a foot or so of leader to grab that extended past the tail.  Another wrap or two, and the line would have chafed through .

 

Hope that helps.

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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Not that anything Charles has said is wrong,  but there is a lot more too it than that, particularly when it comes to makos. As a long time mako fisherman I can say that there are tricks that very few people know about. My boat is named “Makomania, which should give you some idea of how I feel about makos. Fished out of Montauk for 20 years. Frank Mundas, Frank Braddock, Donny Braddock etc. were friends of mine. 
 

These days with the no possession limits in the Atlantic, my advice would be to just follow the tried and true rigs. 6-8 feet of solid 600 pound test wire, haywire twisted to a 600 pound swivel attached to about 10 feet of 600 pound test braided wire with an offshore loop crimped into the rod end and attached to the all mono R&R with a 600 pound snap swivel. Circle hooks and a pig tail dehooker on a 6 foot pole will make the releases a lot easier. 
 

if you want to see them jump, just don’t let them swallow the bait. Have fun, it ain’t the same game anymore.

====Mako Mike====
Makomania Sportfishing
Pt. Judith, RI
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  • 1 month later...

For big shark fishing like threshers and makos, you'll need a heavier setup. A TLD 20 or 25 might work for threshers, but for makos, it's too light. I'd recommend a 50 size conventional reel, a heavy power rod, 100-130lb main line, and a wire leader with circle hook. For bait setup, try suspending a whole fish or large chunk mid-depth.

 fishing! yey!

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On 5/8/2023 at 12:38 PM, TopRicardo said:

For big shark fishing like threshers and makos, you'll need a heavier setup. A TLD 20 or 25 might work for threshers, but for makos, it's too light. I'd recommend a 50 size conventional reel, a heavy power rod, 100-130lb main line, and a wire leader with circle hook. For bait setup, try suspending a whole fish or large chunk mid-depth.

Awesome so a tld 25 would work for threshers? I’ll try that, what pound main line would u recommend?

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On 5/8/2023 at 9:06 PM, Wilk said:

Awesome so a tld 25 would work for threshers? I’ll try that, what pound main line would u recommend?

Yes, a TLD 25 should work for threshers, but remember it might not be enough for makos. For the main line, I'd suggest using 80-100lb braid with a top shot of 100-130lb mono.

 fishing! yey!

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On 5/8/2023 at 3:47 PM, TopRicardo said:

Yes, a TLD 25 should work for threshers, but remember it might not be enough for makos. For the main line, I'd suggest using 80-100lb braid with a top shot of 100-130lb mono.

Sweet how long of a top shot? Would a Bimini twist work for leader connection? Also what size hooks do you recommend for threshers I have heard they have small mouths and that a 12/0 or 14/0 would be a good size

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Would suggest that you try to find a way to get the hook out of the shark instead of just cutting it off. That would really suck. To have a big piece of metal embedded in your jaw for years and the open wound possibly becoming infected over time.
 

There’s some good hook removal tools out there. Seen them in some surf fishing videos. Not sure how they would work for boat fishing though. There’s always got to be a way tho. 

(*member previously known as 'SoCalStripers')

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On 5/9/2023 at 11:14 PM, WindAndWater said:

Would suggest that you try to find a way to get the hook out of the shark instead of just cutting it off. That would really suck. To have a big piece of metal embedded in your jaw for years and the open wound possibly becoming infected over time.
 

There’s some good hook removal tools out there. Seen them in some surf fishing videos. Not sure how they would work for boat fishing though. There’s always got to be a way tho. 

My friend and I are building a hook remover where u slide it on the line and just push it and the circle hook should pop out. Also should I get a fighting belt or Will a Cush it work?

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On 5/8/2023 at 3:06 PM, Wilk said:

Awesome so a tld 25 would work for threshers? I’ll try that, what pound main line would u recommend?

The threshers you run into are likely to be far larger than the makos.  Yes, there are large makos taken occasionally, but fish over 300 are getting hard to come by.  Threshers of that size, on the other hand, are fairly common.

 

You also need to remember that threshers are bulls, and fight you with every bit of their strength, while makos often come in semi-green and then go wild once you take the wire.  For all of their vaunted reputation--and I'll admit that I love catching them--makos are an easier fish to beat, pound-for-pound, than a thresher.

 

I've been doing this since the late 1970s, and never saw a mako I couldn't beat on a 50-pound outfit, and that means 50-pound tournament mono, not 130 braid.  Had a thresher a couple of years ago that made a fool of my angler on that sort of gear.  Tried to juimp and couldn't get its body out of the water.  Had to go well over 500.

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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On 5/9/2023 at 10:25 PM, Wilk said:

Sweet how long of a top shot? Would a Bimini twist work for leader connection? Also what size hooks do you recommend for threshers I have heard they have small mouths and that a 12/0 or 14/0 would be a good size

50-pound line is all you need.

 

I use 18/0 circles, and even small theshers have no problem with them (nor did a mako only 28 inches long).  They even work on small sandbars, etc.

 

Bolt cutters are your best approach to removing the hook.  Just cut through the shank right next to the jaw, and you're done.

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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On 5/12/2023 at 12:17 PM, Wilk said:

My friend and I are building a hook remover where u slide it on the line and just push it and the circle hook should pop out. Also should I get a fighting belt or Will a Cush it work?

You need not only a belt, but a harness for the bigger fish.  

 

You're not going to stand up to a big thresher, especially if you go heavier than 50, without a stand up harness.  There are a few good ones out there; go to a shop and find one that feels right.

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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