Eero nymphing.

[Mike Oliver]

John yea agree with you. Though I am amazed that the Comp boys allow weight to be added. They dont when boat fishing. Funny ole world when it suites them it’s legit. They can have ultra fast sinking lines but can’t add a tungsten bead say on a floating line presentation. BS. I used to be of the persuasion that any thing goes as long as legal. I do euro nymph. I struggle with indicators that are really bobbers in the UK. I love more than anything simple nymph fishing with just the fly line as the indicator. It sure is pretty inefficient in contra current situations and difficult. Great when fishing glassy glides where euro is too clumsy and every fish is going to see you. I get a huge kick out of traditional nymphing  even though numbers caught in a day are way less than euro. Euro needs skill of that there is no doubt and hopefully it might encourage the heavy footed and splash waders to become stealthy. A rare sight to see is stealth.

 

oly 

[puppet]

4 hours ago, John350 said:

  I learn a lot from these forums and also try to give back.  Maybe the prior post read as arrogant but when your responding to people discrediting moral tactics and discouraging others from becoming better anglers its hard to play nice.

Keep doing what you are doing.  Some guys just want to find an excuse to start trouble or prove they are somehow elite.

 

You did not come across as arrogant. What you note is true and was not self promoting.

 

I just wish these threads would not become a chest beating/grunt match.....hahaha.  I thought flyfisherman were supposed to be civilized.  More like a pack of teenagers.

 

Anyway.  I am pretty certain that a large part of the trout diet are nymphs.

 

For those not interested in this discussion, you can start your own thread on techniques you want to share or have questions on.

 

Wendell Ozefovich has a great series on trout, their vision, and how and what they feed on.  So much of it has helped me in my fly fishing, dare I call it that.  Not just trout, but it some of it applies to striped bass too.

 

The style of the series is 1970 dated...like Mutual of Omaha Wild  Kingdom.  Dont let it fool you, it is chock full of info and worth every penny.

 

Most flyfishing instruction is void of the why techniques work, this series is a study of nature through the eyes of an angler. Knowing our prey is powerful, as it can explain why most of these nymphing techniques work.

 

Edited March 12 by puppet

[SB59]

21 hours ago, Mike Oliver said:

A rare sight to see is stealth.

You got that right.

[puppet]

50 mins ago, SB59 said:

 

22 hours ago, Mike Oliver said:

A rare sight to see is stealth.

You got that right.

 

 

In general, stealth is blown pretty quickly in most cases, especially when one enters the water.  What we often target are bold fish, the ones that will acclimate to our presence.

 

Not sure if this is relevant, What irks me is when 90% of anglers will just march into a pool without fishing any close to shore lies first.  Sometimes they stand on some of the most productive structure. Waste a lot of great fishing just to get to an easy section.  Ruins the whole stretch for themselves and others.  I rarely enter the water before I take inventory of everything close.

 

One thing I see about euro techniques is that it educates on how close fish can be converted.  It can be executed from a bank.

 

 

[SB59]

4 hours ago, puppet said:

What irks me is when 90% of anglers will just march into a pool without fishing any close to shore lies first.

I never enter the water without first using the polaroid's to study the water beforehand. Sometimes I actually have people blow right by to run to a pool in the middle necessitating  me to move on to another stretch. I once while wading & fishing upstream was passed by a Blue Heron. 

[nakedhead]

I've certainly enjoyed the back and forth chatter on this style of fishing.  Early in the thread I mentioned the importance of camoflauge and stealth. I mentioned practicing being invisible. I mentioned spending more time standing still.  Happy to see that others are voicing the importance of not letting the trout know you are there in the first place.

 

What I didn't mention earlier was the importance of vibration.  Footsteps, cracking sticks, shifting rocks, grinding gravel and shouting are not sounds that put trout at ease.  

 

Study the water before you cast, plan your approach, be quiet, move slowly and pretend you are a predator.

Work hard at becoming part of the environment and your ability to Euro nymph effectively will follow closely.

[Billl nye]

Good thread.  When I trout fish I euro nymph 99 percent of the time because small New England waters basically are perfect for it since most consist of pocket water with no back cast room but I truthfully find it boring.  I wish it wasn’t so effective because you feel like you are missing fish if you aren’t euro nymphing.  I prefer indicator nymphing but there are only a few rivers like some stretches of the Farmington where it’s the best way to fish the water.  

Edited March 16 by Billl nye

[surfflyguy]

5 hours ago, Billl nye said:

Good thread.  When I trout fish I euro nymph 99 percent of the time because small New England waters basically are perfect for it since most consist of pocket water with no back cast room but I truthfully find it boring.  I wish it wasn’t so effective because you feel like you are missing fish if you aren’t euro nymphing.  I prefer indicator nymphing but there are only a few rivers like some stretches of the Farmington where it’s the best way to fish the water.  

I thought the same thing about the Farmington especially the upper section but then I realized it’s actually not a bad river to swing flies on. 

[puppet]

2 hours ago, surfflyguy said:

I thought the same thing about the Farmington especially the upper section but then I realized it’s actually not a bad river to swing flies on. 

In general I find that different days and even different trout will react to different presentations.  Like one stretch, I will have fish on one presentation, the next stretch they will react to a different one.  I find the same with striped bass.  That is the fun of this and also the trouble with putting all our eggs in one basket.  Like when we pick to euro nymph.  I find this to be true no matter the river.  Most often it is not a case that the fish aren't biting.  Its most often they are not buying what we are selling.  We need to avoid what my friend calls "Trying to catch yesterdays fish" .  Which boils down to what worked before may not work now.  This happens a lot.  There could be a hatch event that turns the fish on and one presentation is working.....minutes later or in a different stretch the rule book can be reset.

 

I often find on the water, folk ask me what presentation or fly I am using as they are noting I am converting fish.  After I tell them, 90% of the time they tell me they are going to try something other than what I am doing. Most often it is dramatically opposite. Their mind is already hell bent to catch fish a certain way.  I find it interesting and wonder why they asked.....hahahhaa.

Edited March 16 by puppet

[surfflyguy]

1 min ago, puppet said:

In general I find that different days and even different trout will react to different presentations.  Like one stretch, I will have fish on one presentation, the next stretch they will react to a different on.  I find the same with striped bass.  That is the fun of this and also the trouble with putting all our eggs in one basket.  I find this to be true no matter the river.  Most often it is not a case that the fish aren't biting.  Its most often they are not buying what we are selling.  We need to avoid what my friend calls "Trying to catch yesterdays fish" .  Which boils down to what worked before may not work now.  This happens a lot.  There could be a hatch event that turns the fish on and one presentation is working.....minutes later or in a different stretch the rule book can be reset.

 

I often find on the water, folk ask me what presentation or fly I am using as they are noting I am converting fish.  After I tell them, 90% of the time they tell me they are going to try something other than what I am doing. Most often it is dramatically opposite. Their mind is already hell bent to catch fish a certain way.

It’s deff hard for people to go out of their comfort zone same can be said of the dry or die guys of the Catskills 

[CWitek]

23 hours ago, surfflyguy said:

It’s deff hard for people to go out of their comfort zone same can be said of the dry or die guys of the Catskills 

It's often not so much "comfort zone" as what folks enjoy.

 

Let's face it--if your only goal is to catch a trout, you need to go out an buy a box of worms, or maybe get some shiners if the fish are running large.

 

Many people fly fish because they enjoy handicapping themselves, and decide that if they're going to catch a fish, they're going to catch it on their terms.  Thus, the "dry or die" folks.  It's not a question of "comfort zone," it's a question of enjoying the challenge of bringing a fish up for a surface take, even when conditions might not be right for that technique, and getting satisfaction out of beating the odds.

 

Personally, when I trout fish--something that I enjoy, but don't do that often, as I need to talk myself into driving two or three hours and spending the night in a motel to catch a half-pound trout, when I can run less time offshore and wrestle fish weighing more than I do and still sleep in my own bed when I get home--I have no problem fishing a streamer, swinging a wet, or drifting a nymph (and find the latter some of the most challenging fishing of them all), if dries aren't on the fish's menu.

 

But I still respect the dries-only folks for sticking to their guns and insisting on taking fish their way or not at all.

[John350]

On 3/17/2023 at 8:32 AM, CWitek said:

It's often not so much "comfort zone" as what folks enjoy.

 

Let's face it--if your only goal is to catch a trout, you need to go out an buy a box of worms, or maybe get some shiners if the fish are running large.

 

Many people fly fish because they enjoy handicapping themselves, and decide that if they're going to catch a fish, they're going to catch it on their terms.  Thus, the "dry or die" folks.  It's not a question of "comfort zone," it's a question of enjoying the challenge of bringing a fish up for a surface take, even when conditions might not be right for that technique, and getting satisfaction out of beating the odds.

 

Personally, when I trout fish--something that I enjoy, but don't do that often, as I need to talk myself into driving two or three hours and spending the night in a motel to catch a half-pound trout, when I can run less time offshore and wrestle fish weighing more than I do and still sleep in my own bed when I get home--I have no problem fishing a streamer, swinging a wet, or drifting a nymph (and find the latter some of the most challenging fishing of them all), if dries aren't on the fish's menu.

 

But I still respect the dries-only folks for sticking to their guns and insisting on taking fish their way or not at all.

Great post with a lot of very valid points.  In my experience, again only my experience I have found the dry or die guys to be the least approachable folks on the river.  Had a few run ins with these guys who came across at stubborn and elitist.  That is probably why I perceive these fisherman as not wanting to evolve out of their comfort zone.  Not the right way to think about it, I get it.  Thanks for the perspective 

[puppet]

There is always a bit of an us and  them sort of thing that happens in every discipline, including fishing.

 

In general, there is always some arrogance found on the water which cracks me up.  Most stocked water is a small step away from what I would consider a trout park.   Funny to see guys with thousands of dollars of equipment, and so serious that the will not acknowledge another angler when they say hello.

 

Funny stuff.  I think its fine for folk to fish the way they want.  The judgement amd the attitudes bother me most, but it does amuse me.  Most technical water I fish seems to be void of people and what I would consider, the jerks.  Sort of imteresting how difficult,  can be a jerk filter.

[CWitek]

17 hours ago, puppet said:

There is always a bit of an us and  them sort of thing that happens in every discipline, including fishing.

 

In general, there is always some arrogance found on the water which cracks me up.  Most stocked water is a small step away from what I would consider a trout park.   Funny to see guys with thousands of dollars of equipment, and so serious that the will not acknowledge another angler when they say hello.

 

Funny stuff.  I think its fine for folk to fish the way they want.  The judgement amd the attitudes bother me most, but it does amuse me.  Most technical water I fish seems to be void of people and what I would consider, the jerks.  Sort of imteresting how difficult,  can be a jerk filter.

I like to believe that if whatever someone is doing doesn't hurt the fish, the river, or other anglers, it's all good.

 

I have to admit that I cringed a bit when I saw someone tossing spinners below the Hazel Road bridge on the Willowemoc last May (honestly compels me to admit that I saw such spin fisherman catch and release at least two decent trout, while we fly fishermen did nothing more than exeercise our arms), but I will also freely admit that such cringing was irrational.

[surfflyguy]

6 hours ago, CWitek said:

I like to believe that if whatever someone is doing doesn't hurt the fish, the river, or other anglers, it's all good.

 

I have to admit that I cringed a bit when I saw someone tossing spinners below the Hazel Road bridge on the Willowemoc last May (honestly compels me to admit that I saw such spin fisherman catch and release at least two decent trout, while we fly fishermen did nothing more than exeercise our arms), but I will also freely admit that such cringing was irrational.

I’ll be there with my trout Spey set up soon haha