Eero nymphing.

[BeachBum818]

4 mins ago, John350 said:

I would also drop down to 12 or 14 pound amnesia mono. Some guys are using 6 pound line. trend has been lighter and lighter. Also don't expect to feel bottom much without a 10 to 11ft euro rod. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why would the length of the rod determine feeling bottom? I figured the line diameter 6lb vs 14lb would be more of a factor. 

[John350]

4 mins ago, BeachBum818 said:

Why would the length of the rod determine feeling bottom? I figured the line diameter 6lb vs 14lb would be more of a factor. 

Has a lot to do with the construction of the euro rod and the sensitivity In the tip.  Not saying it isn't possible with a traditional 9fter but once you start using a true euro rod it's night and day

[BeachBum818]

5 mins ago, John350 said:

Has a lot to do with the construction of the euro rod and the sensitivity In the tip. Not saying it isn't possible with a traditional 9fter but once you start using a true euro rod it's night and day

 

 

But 11ft vs 9ft euro rod shouldn't change sensitivity 

Edited February 19 by BeachBum818
Spelling

[John350]

I'm not aware of any 9 ft euro rods.  Maybe there is one out there but the reason euro rods are longer is for reach.  If we are going to get into technicalities then I will rephrase my comment to exclude the 10 or 11ft and just say a euro rod is key lol.  Having the appropriate tool for the job here cannot be overlooked 

Edited February 19 by John350

[BeachBum818]

2 mins ago, John350 said:

I'm not aware of any 9 ft euro rods. Maybe there is one out there but the reason euro rods are longer is for reach. 

 

Yes im aware. Ok 11ft vs 13ft... length again won't have an impact on sensitivity 

[John350]

No idea where your going with is or do I really care.  Just trying to help this guy through some of learning curve that I went through.  The point was that euro rods and traditional fly rods are not one and the same.  Enjoy your evening 

 

And yes length does matter for sensitivity.  Longer reach allows you to fish more vertical with less sag creating better contact with your flies.  Lower lb running line helps sensitivity but the benefit is being able to fish smaller nymphs with less sag, again creating better contact.  

Edited February 19 by John350

[1amson]

2 hours ago, John350 said:

Just make sure your leader / tippet that is in the water is not tapered.  One of the benefits of fishing the euro rig is having one diameter line in the water from top to bottom of the column.  Helps with drag and staying in contact with your flies.  I would also drop down to 12 or 14 pound amnesia mono.  Some guys are using 6 pound line.  trend has been lighter and lighter.  Also don't expect to feel bottom much without a 10 to 11ft euro rod. 

I actually already have an 11’ euro rod and another spool with 15 lb amnesia on it. I have like every flavor of mono rig recommended line lol.  I’ll give it another try probably. I found with that much lighter line it was all lobbing, no cast.  I think my record lob was 3’ 

Edited February 19 by 1amson

[MikeK]

2 hours ago, BeachBum818 said:

But 11ft vs 9ft euro rod shouldn't change sensitivity 

Length absolutely effects sensitivity.  When I was shopping the Contact II, Goodspeed told me that the 10' 2 wt contact ii was the most sensitive in the contact line.  He also said that 10'8" was the length at which you really started compromising sensitivity for reach.

 

If you think about it.  You are feeling through your hand.  Assuming the blank, guides, etc. are equal, the longer the rod, the further vibrations have to travel, the less you feel.  So it is all a balance between sensitivity and feel.  I personally fish a 10' 2 wt for all bit the biggest rivers.

[John350]

8 hours ago, 1amson said:

I actually already have an 11’ euro rod and another spool with 15 lb amnesia on it. I have like every flavor of mono rig recommended line lol.  I’ll give it another try probably. I found with that much lighter line it was all lobbing, no cast.  I think my record lob was 3’ 

Perfect, then you are on the right path.  Casting in the river and your lawn will be much different.  When in the river keep your flies in the water when you are setting to cast forward.  Let the water resistance of your flies coming out of the water behind you create load in the rod.  If you are not getting a 20ft+ cast add heavier tungsten flies.  If your fishing a lot of weight just be sure to not cast to far upstream and take up slack immediately when it hits the water.  Once you get the hang of the motion with heavier flies you will be able to drop down in weight.

 

Nymphing isn't always the most productive ticking the bottom.  It will always depend on what the bugs in the water are doing and where in the water column fish are feeding.  If you constantly come into the drift and hit bottom on the 1st cast there is a good chance you snag a stick, rock, etc and scare off the larger fish.  Sometimes it's better to fish the upper middle water column and then drop down until you crack the code.  Don't give up on it, you will increase your catch rate significantly 

[1amson]

Yes. The longer rod is the only element of the system I have worked out lol.  The rods sold as euro nymphing specific rods are usually 10’+ and a 2-3 wt.  long length + low wt is to increase sensitivity and distance with the euro line/mono as I understand it. That’s not to say you couldn’t probably get the job done with a shorter 2-3wt, or even a regular 5-6wt. I just watched a vid last night where a guy had his regular floating fly line on a 6wt, reeled it in so only the 9’ leader was coming off the rod tip, and looped the fly line around the reel seat to stop it from falling back through The guides. Put on a heavy nymph and was technically tight line nymphing i guess… hey, he caught fish. 
But things like that and the disagreement about rod length/sensitivity are kind of case in point why I thought this would be a good thread, everybody and their brother is doing the same thing a little (and sometimes a lot) differently. Some folks in-the-know sharing their own proven rigs and equipment is not only greatly beneficial to me, but also a lot of other who find this thread in the future. Because i can tell you, from other fishermen i meet on the water, to even the guys at the fly shops, it seems most folks are just as confused and eager to learn as i am when it comes to euro/mono rigs. 
So another thank you to everyone is in order because every tidbit of info is useful, and even the disagreements here will serve as learning tools. 

[1amson]

1 hour ago, John350 said:

Perfect, then you are on the right path.  Casting in the river and your lawn will be much different.  When in the river keep your flies in the water when you are setting to cast forward.  Let the water resistance of your flies coming out of the water behind you create load in the rod.  If you are not getting a 20ft+ cast add heavier tungsten flies.  If your fishing a lot of weight just be sure to not cast to far upstream and take up slack immediately when it hits the water.  Once you get the hang of the motion with heavier flies you will be able to drop down in weight.

 

Nymphing isn't always the most productive ticking the bottom.  It will always depend on what the bugs in the water are doing and where in the water column fish are feeding.  If you constantly come into the drift and hit bottom on the 1st cast there is a good chance you snag a stick, rock, etc and scare off the larger fish.  Sometimes it's better to fish the upper middle water column and then drop down until you crack the code.  Don't give up on it, you will increase your catch rate significantly 

This is good info. It’ll be easy for me to give it another shot because like I mentioned I have another reel with that exact mono type and test on it. At the beginning i just got a few old martin tuna cans for like $10 each and backed the spools with lead core to balance with the rod, then put different line on each for experimentation.  

Edited February 19 by 1amson

[1amson]

Ok. So I’m still confused on a lot of things, but the most of all is the construction of the mono rig “leader”.  
Ya go surf fishing, it’s about 3-4’ of 20lb mono/floro= easy. Ya go bass fishing or whatever, a ft of mono that’s a little less that your main line test= simple. Fly fishing with drys, a streamer, whatever= whatever tapered leader works best= simple enough. 
….mono rig leader= mile long mess of multiple brands of mono, of multiple tests, leading to multiple #X tippets, with multiple knots, and a tippet ring or 2 tosses into the mix, all for god knows what reason.  …or at least that’s how it seems. 
I’ve tried so many and had them not work as described/demonstrated, it’s not even funny.

So. 
What is your tested and proven mono rig formula that definitely works, and more importantly, WHY?  Why 15lb test? Why 1’ of 4x to 28” of 7x? Etc. 

 

Drawn illustrations welcome. 

Not leaving out any crucial details to instead go off on a tale about fishing with John Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt in the Appalachian mountains back in 82’= abundantly appreciated. Lol. 

Edited February 20 by 1amson

[slowroller]

Just go to troutbitten, there's literally hundreds of pages of detailed information. The 25' of 20lb Chamelion  butt section is in effect a replacement for what would traditionally be fly line. There is a small section of taper of 15/12 lb to help turn the rig over. Add in your sighter and tippet and you're good to go. I think Amnesia is too limp to use as the butt section. Ideally 3-4' of tippet should be all that's in the water. 

Edited February 20 by slowroller

[changed]

Again, all the info on leaders is right here: https://troutbitten.com/2019/10/13/the-full-mono-rig-system-all-the-variations-with-formulas-and-adjustments/

 

Read that.

 

My setup: +30' of 20# Maxima Chameleon (blood knot trimmed flush) 3' of 12# Chameleon (blood knot trimmed flush) 18" of 8# two-tone indicator tippet (cut into sections between the colors and blood knotted back together so that you have visible tags) tippet ring to 5' on 5x flouro, with a 6" 5x flouro tag. Adjust tippet length to be ~1.5 or 2x the depth of the water you're fishing, depending on current speed.

Edited February 22 by changed

[slowroller]

On 2/22/2023 at 10:09 AM, changed said:

Again, all the info on leaders is right here: https://troutbitten.com/2019/10/13/the-full-mono-rig-system-all-the-variations-with-formulas-and-adjustments/

 

Read that.

 

My setup: +30' of 20# Maxima Chameleon (blood knot trimmed flush) 3' of 12# Chameleon (blood knot trimmed flush) 18" of 8# two-tone indicator tippet (cut into sections between the colors and blood knotted back together so that you have visible tags) tippet ring to 5' on 5x flouro, with a 6" 5x flouro tag. Adjust tippet length to be ~1.5 or 2x the depth of the water you're fishing, depending on current speed.

That’ll get it done. I switched from 5x to seagar 4# fluorocarbon for my tippet halfway through last season,  a 200 yard spool was around $25, works just as well as the fly specific floro that costs $15 for 30 yards. I’ll occasionally go to 6x floro for small gin clear alpine streams, but the seagar handles pretty much everything else.