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CTS Affinity X 9’ 9wt Line Pairing

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JHarlam

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4 mins ago, ZAFisher said:

Taken from the CTS website: 260-310 grains

I saw that - actually I think it’s 280-340 for the affinity x#9 and the flats pro is 280 grains for the first 30 ft and 400grains for the full 50’ head. So perhaps on the light side. Every rod has a grain weight I’ve found that really loads the rod perfectly though and trying to find that

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Please don’t take this wrong.

The issue is slack in your backcast (or pushing slack into the early phase of the delivery with the line hand ) , not the rod or the line.  A heavier line or shorter head or both will hide the issue by giving you more inertia to work against but improving your backcast (and maintaining line tension)  will let you use the line you have and throw it a lot farther.

 

Watch your backcast.  Learn to throw it straight with a narrow loop and enough line speed to unroll straight with remaining tension and the rod will cast a wide range of lines just fine.  At that point you’ll undoubtably find a head length and line weight you prefer, but this is subjective, not some built in fixed property of the rod.

 

I cringe at how long it took me learn this. I spent decades blaming my tools instead.

 

Edited by numbskull
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I have that rod (assuming it is a standard X and not HL’s model) and it needs at least one line weight up. I would try a 10 and one of the lines that’s 1/2 to 3/4 heavy at that. I found it to be stiff and lifeless with a 9 but casts very well with a 10. 
 

As far as a particular line, I’d say that’s the caster’s preference, what I like may not work for you. 
 

I’m sure Herb will respond and offer advice as well. 

Edited by Fergal

ASMFC - Destroying public resources and fisheries one stock at a time since 1942.

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Just generally speaking, the X designated rods need 1 to 2 line sizes up, you’ll just have to try some different weights and head lengths till you find what feels right, as an example, I have an 8X and use Wulff and Airflo 9 lines on it, both of these lines are already overweight.

JC

 

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4 hours ago, numbskull said:

some stuff

How could you say that having not seen me cast? :) Have you cast this rod and line before? I can cast almost the whole line with this setup (without wind)..but it's underlined and the rod doesn't load properly.  This is not really a problem until wind gets involved and you're throwing an 18' leader. Am I a perfect caster? No, and I can get better, but any good caster should know that line pairing is critical when you get in to technical fishing scenarios.

 

3 hours ago, Fergal said:

I have that rod (assuming it is a standard X and not HL’s model) and it needs at least one line weight up. I would try a 10 and one of the lines that’s 1/2 to 3/4 heavy at that. I found it to be stiff and lifeless with a 9 but casts very well with a 10. 
 

As far as a particular line, I’d say that’s the caster’s preference, what I like may not work for you. 
 

I’m sure Herb will respond and offer advice as well. 

I have the standard X. I reached out to Herb and he responded with this.

 
"Wulff Bermuda Triangle Short floaters - on the FX #9 I would use the #10
RIO Outpound #9 Float or Interm,
Airflo Sniper #9 Float or Interm.
 
On second thought - if the Short heads produce too much splash - you  might have to go up a line wt."
 
Appreciate the input from all here. I casted a Cortland tarpon taper #10 and the rod really that setup more (280grains in a 41' head).  Seems like the slightly more aggressive head made a solid difference. Still think the rod would like something closer 310-330 in the head
 
 
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5 mins ago, Fergal said:

You may not be off by going above 300gr. Again, caster’s preference. It might work well for you. 
 

Again, that rod definitely needs one wt higher. 

When asked to compare the CTS Affinity-X with the Affinity-MX - say in a #5 blank -  my answer is always go to a #4 in the "X" and #5 in the "MX".

I have a lot of problems lining my rods with some line manufacturers.

I cannot carry a lot (50-70') of line in the air - so use the Short integrated heads alot.  Is that a crutch - maybe. 

So, my go-to line for the Affinity-X #9 would be the RIO Outbound Short.

My younger friends can use the Airflo Cold Intermediate with a 40' head.  On the #9 "X" I would use the #10. 

 

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Herb have you got this right. The MX is not as fast or powerful as the X. I have a 10 wt Affinty MX that you part built for me and another I built myself. These rods cast supremely well with a 10 wt Airflow Cold Water  Striper line. Theses lines are about  half size up. They have beautiful long heads so we can put more line into the air if we wish to. If I was going  to use an Outbound Short ( wash my mouth out with soap and water) I would try with both the 8 wt and 9 wt.

 

Ok the AffintyX that  JHzrlam has we  have to assume it’s a 9 wt as he does not specify exactly what he is fishing. 
Rod and line so called line matching is not an exact science. I would wager as I have Affinty X blanks in my stock that a 9wt labled rod will cast a 9 wt long head made to AAFTM standard fly line. It will cast a 7 wt and an 8 wt as well. At the other end of the spectrum I would expect it to cast a 10 wt line.

J I think you were a little harsh on numbskull who is pretty clued up on casting even taking your point he has not seen you cast. The evidence is there in your post. 
Rod load , what is that exactly. What does it give us. If you believe Jason Borger it adds about 15% to our distance cast. Yet loading the rod and letting the rod do all the work is all over the Internet and casting books. People choose to believe it. Nailing my colours to the mast I don’t. We move the rod we control the rod.

 

To make a good cast as numskull said we need a straight back cast. Tension is everything in a fly cast. He suspects like I do and we could be wrong that this is not happening. With a fast action rod like the X there is not going to be a feeling of what you call loading the rod. What we need to do is flex the tip sufficiently for the amount of line we have in the air by dint of casting arc and rod speed. This changes as we change the amount of line we put into the air. Great example is false casting from say 10 feet of line outside the rod tip to finally  35 feet . The size of the rod arc and speed of the rod increases as we feed more line into the casts. If we get this right we get the correct amount of flex in the tip of the rod to maintain it on a theoretical straight line rod path.

A huge number of guys I believe have difficulty with this light feel. The rod is not loading in their heads so their solution is to increase the line weight. This slows the rod down and they can feel it much better but it does not mean the line is under the correct tension during the cast.  
Numbskull is correct in that this is likely to be a casting issue. To cast the narrow loop he mentions on your back cast you have to move the rod fast enough and on an arc that suits the amount of line you have in the air and it must go straight. You establish this by experience. Paul Arden shows this too on a video so it is not just me and Numbskull sounding off. We are trying to help you.

You mention casting 18 foot leaders into a wind. This is a red flag. I regularly fish leaders up to 20 feet Buzzer fishing but need either the best wind a cross wind on my none casting side or second best wind a tailer. 18 foot leaders into a breeze are not going to turn over.

Sort the cast out and then you can more easily and accurately  find the line weight and head length that works best for you. If you can post a video of your casting that would help us work out what’s going on. No one is trying to break your proverbial here. We want to help you.

 

mike

Edited by Mike Oliver
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13 mins ago, Mike Oliver said:

 

Hey Mike - Yes I'm fishing an Affinity X 9' 9wt. If Herb says to treat the X as a full rod size up I'd have to agree.

 

A fly rod's flex has very much to do with the energy it is able to transmit to a fly cast and create line speed, and, very important in this is the plane in which you move the rod. I don't doubt numbskull is a great caster and knows what he's talking about, but I think it's a little presumptuous to just go to casting dynamics - this was a specific question about a rod and line combination.  I understand that you want to share your experience that the tools are it's not the highest importance, frankly I agree, but that's simply not the problem here.  

 

I have no doubts that a 9wt affinity X can cast a 7wt line but that would not be an ideal scenario - would you want that setup casting 90' toward a bltiz? You would ultimately have to haul much harder to generate line speed instead of allowing the rod to do the work. Similarly you fish a #9 flats pro on this rod it's not going to perform to its full potential for the same reason, especially in the wind because whether you can feel it or not feel the 'loading' the rod isn't getting the energy transfer it needs.  

 

18' leaders for permit are common however I would go down to as short as 12' if its windy.  A 18' leader when its blowing 15-20 just isn't going to turn over well or give you much advantage.  You can certainly turn over a long leader like that in the wind but it needs to be tapered properly, you'd want a more aggressive shooting head like a tarpon taper, and need to be good caster. 

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I hear what you are saying but line matching is not an exact science. It is made more difficult by badly labelled rods and overweight fly lines that are given a std fly line number.

Every fly rod I own will work very well with at least two sizes of fly lines. Now they  dont always relate to what’s labled on the rod. 
Herb and I know each other’s preferences pretty well and they are very different. He tends to enjoy a heavier line for a given rod than I do. For the X in a 9wt a long head line in a proper 9 wt line works extremely well for me. For others it might be a 10 wt.. At worst you have to buy two lines. I guess it is the cost of entry. Your right a 7 wt line would not be my first choice casting 90 feet to a blitze. It would be a 9 wt with that rod and with a long head line as a short head is not going to make the distance. I believe that casting and rod line matching are all important. Whatever line we put to a rod the effect on the blank is variable dependant on how much line is in the air and how fast it is moving. It is one of the facets  which makes casting so interesting.

I am sure you will find the line that works for you. The Affinty X is a fabulous rod.

 

Mike
 

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JHarlam

Something to consider.

There are people (though sadly not me) who could use your CTS 9wt to throw a 5wt MED trout line 140'.

How is that possible if it won't "load" with an overweighted 9wt line like the RIO?

Please educate us on this.

Thanks

 

 

  

Edited by numbskull
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17 mins ago, numbskull said:

JHarlam

Something to consider.

There are people (though sadly not me) who could use your CTS 9wt to throw a 5wt MED trout line 140'.

How is that possible if it won't "load" with an overweighted 9wt line like the RIO?

Please educate us on this.

Thanks

 

 

  

I didn't say the Rio line doesn't load the rod- it doesn't load it properly for my needs. Also the Rio is not overweighted per the CTS grain weight specifications.  I'm sure you know this but it really all depends on how much line is being carried so the Rio flats pro struggled in close  (30-50') due to the longer head and performed much better as more line was arielized. 

 

I'm sure someone could throw a 5wt trout line very far but would need to be carrying a ton of fly line to do so. Starting that cast with 20ft of line would take some effort and false casts. Not to mention making extremely exaggerated hauls and long strokes. I certainly couldn't do it but I'd love to watch someone do that...my goal is to have the right line to use minimal effort and get the line out with minimal casts whether it be a short 30' shot or an 80' shot in to the wind. 

Edited by JHarlam
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