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Whale on Lido Beach

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BeachBum818

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On 2/3/2023 at 7:54 AM, CWitek said:

Having spent a lot of time on the ocean around whales, I find just the opposite.

 

Whales seem completely indifferent to marine traffic.  They automatically assume the right of way, and expect vessels--at least smaller vessels, to alter course to accommodate the whale.  While that may be understandable in the larger whales, like the fins--a friend had his 28 Topaz struck by a whale in Hudson Canyon a few years ago, when a big fin decided to surface beneath him in what seemed like an empty sea, wiping out his running gear--the little minkes behave the same way.  I've had to alter course countless times, or throw the boat out of gear, even when trolling at 7 or 8 kt, when the whale could easily evade, because a minke no larger than the boat decided to force the issue.

 

They may behave differently with big ships, but given that the big ships resemble nothing in nature, moving very quickly on the surface, they may fall outside the whale's frame of reference, resulting in the whale being struck simply because it had no instincts telling it how to respond.

Charles, as always your input is much appreciated.

Mine is limited from shore so thank you for sharing your experience.

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Interesting topic with the whales. I have been wondering about this as well since it’s abnormal to see so many in a season. Plus the amount of whales I observed this fall near the shore 
 

im interested to hear if there are any findings linked to the surveying for the wind farms. I know many years ago I had a real old depth finder that was a hand me down- once I took a swim and it was on- I was surprised at how loud it was under water! I stopped using it when fishing since I figured it was spooking fish. Remember sound travels much further under water and whales use sound to communicate and for location. 
 

im not saying it’s definitely the cause- but it’s definitely worth investigating more. Think of the large area that needs to be surveyed and the amount of time… 

 

I was actually thinking that maybe that’s the cause of our memorable fall run - this fall in Nj we had so many fish on the beach… and sizable fish too which usually hang further out or sometimes swim right by us… 

 

anyways here’s a website I found and a document with more info: 

 

https://www.savelbi.org/_files/ugd/a85a2b_fd3e4e20d7174e3f904e500f3b3ea111.pdf

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

The other day saw a chart with GPS track of the vessels being used for the windfarm op. The timing of thier travels and latest dead whales washing up appeared to be similar. I just glanced at it real quick. Maybe someone here knows more about that?

 

No matter what, this is nuts man. I'm old not old and never heard of this before. Always makes me think of how many are not making it to the beach and being recovered too

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I mean I’m not gonna point the finger at terrain mapping sonar for wind farms, but it makes sense. 
 

Maybe there’s some factor we haven’t thought about that’s pushing whales closer to shore, but the fact that these beachings/deaths occurrence seems to like up with the time and location for floor mapping is noticeable.  
 

we know sonar messes up whales. Large naval ships and nuke subs use powerful sonar that disorients/confuses whales, but they are generally large pulses at long intervals. The terrain mapping is a much, much lower energy pulse, but the frequency is significantly higher, and the pings are stacking on top of themselves. Maybe the constant presence of lower level sounds is disorienting the whales

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44 mins ago, z-man said:

Aren’t most or all of these whales washing up already dead. They aren’t strandings like have happened in the past when whales got screwed up by military sonar. These seem to be dying at sea which would most likely mean boat strikes, disease or poisoning. 

I think if they were boat strikes they would’ve come out and said so by now, it’s often pretty apparent when it’s a boat strike.

 

poisoning is an interesting option, maybe plastic pollution or some chemical process

 

i wouldn’t be surprised if the combination of shipping and frequent sonar use is pushing the whales closer to shore, so the whales die naturally or potentially due to reduced food availability and end up washing up because they’re living closer to shore, as opposed to dying offshore and sinking in 1000 feet of water

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10 hours ago, EliasA said:

I think if they were boat strikes they would’ve come out and said so by now, it’s often pretty apparent when it’s a boat strike.

 

poisoning is an interesting option, maybe plastic pollution or some chemical process

 

i wouldn’t be surprised if the combination of shipping and frequent sonar use is pushing the whales closer to shore, so the whales die naturally or potentially due to reduced food availability and end up washing up because they’re living closer to shore, as opposed to dying offshore and sinking in 1000 feet of water

At least 40% are confirmed boat strikes.

 

While it's not impossible that the sonar is contributing to the kills, we should remember the adage "correlation does not necessarily indicate causation."  Just because the kills are happening at the same time the wind farm surveys are going on, it doesn't mean that there is a connection.  There may just be more whales around for some reason connected to oceanographic conditions.

 

Consider the 2021 bluefin tuna fishery off Rockaway Inlet.  I'm not going to call it unprecendented, because it probably happened before, but I never recall so many large mediums and giants in relatively shallow water, that far west, in my lifetime.  Conditions seemed similar in 2020 and 2022, but the abundance didn't occur in either year, although a few big fish were still around.  Why was 2021 different?  I'm not sure anyone has a good answer.

 

We could be looking at the same thing happening with whales.

 

We should also remember that, even without human intervention, whales die.  If you look at the treaties that the early colonists made with native tribes, you'll find that salvaging whales that washed up dead was often an important issue, suggesting that, before steamships, before sonar, and before seismic surveys, dead whales were common enough to justify special consideration in treaties.  With the number of most whale species slowly (and, in the case of humpbacks, perhaps not so,slowly) increasing, the incidence of natural deaths will also occur.

 

Add in entanglements, ship strikes, ingestion of plastic bags and such, and yes, perhaps some impact from the windfarms, although that's yet to be proven, in an area with a large number of whales, and the increased strandings don't seem so strange.

 

 

"I have always believed that outdoor writers who come out against fish and wildlife conservation are in the wrong business. To me, it makes as much sense golf writers coming out against grass.."  --  Ted Williams

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2 hours ago, surfcityNJ said:

A fisherman with a reasonable take. You are a rarity @CWitek. This issue has taken a turn straight into conspiracy land and no amount of information or evidence will change anyone's mind. It's unfortunate and I rarely have the energy to engage in conversations beyond this.

 

This is the new reality of our culture - any and all events greeted with instant pollicization, fueled by social media accounts and the normalizing of alex jones type tin hattery. 

 

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2 hours ago, surfcityNJ said:

A fisherman with a reasonable take. You are a rarity @CWitek. This issue has taken a turn straight into conspiracy land and no amount of information or evidence will change anyone's mind. It's unfortunate and I rarely have the energy to engage in conversations beyond this.

There is no evidence or information that is the whole point/problem:
https://tos.org/oceanography/article/acoustic-impacts-of-offshore-wind-energy-on-fishery-resources-an-evolving-source-and-varied-effects-across-a-wind-farms-lifetime

 

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