HL

Switch Rods - revisited

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31 posts in this topic

48 mins ago, HL said:

Hey

Thanks K Fly.

Be interested in lengths of the upper and lower grips to use as I build. 

You use heads and not intergrated lines with heavy heads??

Herb

Hi Herb,

 

I'll measure the handle / determine the specs on the rod above. I fish integrated fly lines. You know I like the Wulff products with a 30 foot head. That said in the RIO line up (older stuff from 5 years ago) I use Outbound lines with clear heads both in Intermediate & Intermediate head with floating running line.

 

With a single hand cast the rod is effectively a 10 footer (plus 4inches?). With a haul you get the line speed and distance I can't quite achieve using two handed spey techniques.

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28 mins ago, KironaFly said:

Hi Herb,

 

I'll measure the handle / determine the specs on the rod above. I fish integrated fly lines. You know I like the Wulff products with a 30 foot head. That said in the RIO line up (older stuff from 5 years ago) I use Outbound lines with clear heads both in Intermediate & Intermediate head with floating running line.

 

With a single hand cast the rod is effectively a 10 footer (plus 4inches?). With a haul you get the line speed and distance I can't quite achieve using two handed spey techniques.

 

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7 hours ago, HL said:

Hey

Thanks K Fly.

Be interested in lengths of the upper and lower grips to use as I build. 

You use heads and not intergrated lines with heavy heads??

Herb

63cefddf5eae0_GoodMorning.jpeg.b8397972bfb5b9e20d9ebf543146679e.jpeg

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6 hours ago, HL said:

How's your distance OH 2 hand casting

Using two handed casting technique (of which I am not great at doing) ... 60 feet is doable / repeatable. Single hand fashion with the same fly rod & standard WF fly line and a forward cast haul, 80 to 100 feet.

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11 hours ago, KironaFly said:

 

 

This is why I still use surf spinning rods when out front during a blow. Currently I’m planning a custom surf rod build that is light tackle. It will blend surf fly fishing (light weight 10ft rod blank) concepts with surf spinning (braid) distance casting concepts incorporating a Fuji K frame guide train. I’m using a BH Suzuki Special blank / model paired to a 10 oz spinning reel. Perfect for throwing smallish 1 oz lures. By definition a “2 Handed” solution for windy conditions.

 

My favorite set up for the same, as a spinner. You using the Suzuki as a fly rod blank? 

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9 hours ago, flyangler said:

My favorite set up for the same, as a spinner. You using the Suzuki as a fly rod blank? 

No. 
 

I’m currently using the Black Hole Suzuki Special 10’ factory rod as an Albie & Schooligan surf spinning rod (like you).  

 

And then I got the same rod blank & some Fuji Titanium K frames (@  half price) to build a lighter optimized custom version. My point for SOL members, is that one can get or build a surf spinning rod that is a close equivalent of a surf / switch fly rod. 
 

It’s all about light tackle surf fishing for Stripers … where the size of the lure matters … but also the environ (wind & waves).

 

Thanks for the question.

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, KironaFly said:

No. 
 

I’m currently using the Black Hole Suzuki Special 10’ factory rod as an Albie & Schooligan surf spinning rod (like you).  

 

And then I got the same rod blank & some Fuji Titanium K frames (@  half price) to build a lighter optimized custom version. My point for SOL members, is that one can get or build a surf spinning rod that is a close equivalent of a surf / switch fly rod. 
 

It’s all about light tackle surf fishing for Stripers … where the size of the lure matters … but also the environ (wind & waves).

 

Thanks for the question.

Ah, got it, something like this

 

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6A96839A-D64D-4694-8324-DA7E73DBD9A0.jpeg.f5cd718c52464c640aab86fa11dcfa2b.jpeg

 

102AF626-9E5C-4C8A-965E-27DA26721259.thumb.jpeg.fefb60297cfddeb221cdcb3df790c5e5.jpeg

 

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Edited by flyangler

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4 hours ago, flyangler said:

Ah, got it, something like this

 

733E285B-AE05-4A05-BCD6-D06AA0FF4D79.jpeg.1529024e7a9ccfec381a9792fcb614d8.jpeg

 

6A96839A-D64D-4694-8324-DA7E73DBD9A0.jpeg.f5cd718c52464c640aab86fa11dcfa2b.jpeg

 

102AF626-9E5C-4C8A-965E-27DA26721259.thumb.jpeg.fefb60297cfddeb221cdcb3df790c5e5.jpeg

 

75797C30-99C1-45A8-A48A-67B338F82A02.jpeg.d0e7c286dd13fc894c568663fe78faca.jpeg

Yes very much so. I was following your thread on the rod build. Nice unit!

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6 mins ago, KironaFly said:

Yes very much so. I was following your thread on the rod build. Nice unit!

When I get home from Seattle I am starting the 9’6” version. 

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On 1/17/2023 at 11:56 AM, HL said:

I'm going to raise some eyebrows here - with two issues.

 

Mike O - you here?

 

#1.  I built and casted 4-5 10'6" and 11'0" Switch rods 10-12 years ago.  Sold all of them because, as previously said here, they can't cut it in the Cape Cod surf when wind is up.

Well - the next time I will be on the Cape I will be 85 yrs old and do not stand in the surf any longer.  So, decided to buy a few Switch blanks.

10'6" #5

11'0" #6

11'6" #7

My old ones had "fancy" burled stabilized wood rings.  I'm done with that stuff.  The new ones will be plain cork.

Looking to swing flies in estuaries and cast and retrieve in calm open water.

Figure the #5 will handle a #8 line. #6 - a 9 line and the #7 a 10 line.

 

Not looking for more range than 80-90' 

 

#2.  I'll finally concede that a short (10'6" - 11'0") Switch can/may be single handed.

BUT - BUT - they were originally designed to either OH or Spey - not single handed.

I plan to make the fighting butts shorter than my old ones which were 5" long - which should make it easier to SH.

 

My favorite grip is the Ritz grip (modified with pronounced flair at top and bottom).  So, I'm going to make the 10'6" and probably the 11'0" with a Ritz grip at lower part - and an upside-down Ritz for upper part. 

The 11'6" will only be for 2 handed use.

 

Now it goes without saying that Mike's 12'9" rod will outperform any Switch rod in wind and distance.  But, I think the Switch will be enjoyable.

Herb

 

 

Hi All

I'm new to the forum overall and just noticed this flyfishing forum and have read through the topic of switch casting rods. 

 

I was raised in Scotland and spent 30 years fly-fishing rivers and lochs before heading to the USA. I've spent countless days with double handed rods chasing salmon on fast flowing rivers and routinely employed double spey casting and variations on the theme of switch or roll casting. I'm self taught and no doubt have a bunch of bad habits. Of interest, in 30 years I never saw anyone seriously attempting switch casting with a single handed rod. 

 

In November 2022 I tried flyfishing the beaches of New Jersey for stripers and would add the following. When spey casting on a river and starting your cast, you typically have about 15-20 yards of line out. The moving river water and resulting drag on the fly line helps to load the rod. When making the forward stroke you shoot a lot of running line. In the surf with wind and wave its entirely different. I found managing the line and keeping in contact with the fly very difficult. I was using a single handed 10WT rod and line. 

 

However, next time I took my 13ft double handed rod made by ECHO and rated for an 11 line. I also took some fly lines that I've cut a little shorter 65ft a length I'm comfortable casting.  After fishing out a cast (stripping rather than swinging) this rod allowed me to first roll cast or switch cast the line out flat, That gave my 15 yards of line out. I then picked picked it off it off the water and overhead cast the full distance. I was able to do that quite easily and hadn't been able to do that with the single-handed shorter rod. This rod from ECHO was an absolute pleasure to use. This roll casting some line out is standard practice if using a sunk line on a river. Roll it out and bring it to the surface and then execute your double spey cast is the routine. 

 

So, in summary for what it's worth I thought pure switch casting had limited scope in the surf but the double handed rod typically though about as a switch casting rod was much more effective than the single handed rod. 

 

Hope this helps.  

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DST64

 

By switch cast if you are meaning an air borne anchor cast and a small anchor and bigger D loop than a static line roll cast then not that surprised you have seen little of it done with single hand rods. Casting well seems to be out of favour so most guys use just an overhead and roll cast period. Spey casting with single hand rods on rivers is now growing but we don’t just limit ourselves to a Switch cast also known as the jump roll, a double spey and a roll cast.

I just can’t see any of the spey series of casts having a place on an open beach with lines of surf. Broken water in a river is not helpful to spey casting. By the time we have got half way through setting up for a cast like the double spey the surf is likely to have totally messed with us. With a head wind setting up for a circle C is dangerous and dare I say it in reality pretty pointless. The cast which gives us the greatest tension and distance is the overhead. It also keeps the line away from the surf plus it is faster to execute. Time is at a premium in rolling surf. If the ocean is flat calm and the flags cracking then anything goes.

Have to disagree that both a traditional spey rod and switch rod which is just a short spey rod have much use out front. Yes better than trying to spey cast a single hander but still at the days end useless as are spey casts out front. Even slightly reduced full spey lines say to anything much over 35 feet for a 13 foot rod are not going to work effectively. To roll cast up a sunk fly at say a range of 55 feet to the surface in a head wind and surf in one or even two or three attempts is wishful thinking. To then lift off that amount of line cleanly in fizzy water is the stuff of dreams.

 

Mike

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18 hours ago, Mike Oliver said:

DST64

 

By switch cast if you are meaning an air borne anchor cast and a small anchor and bigger D loop than a static line roll cast then not that surprised you have seen little of it done with single hand rods. Casting well seems to be out of favour so most guys use just an overhead and roll cast period. Spey casting with single hand rods on rivers is now growing but we don’t just limit ourselves to a Switch cast also known as the jump roll, a double spey and a roll cast.

I just can’t see any of the spey series of casts having a place on an open beach with lines of surf. Broken water in a river is not helpful to spey casting. By the time we have got half way through setting up for a cast like the double spey the surf is likely to have totally messed with us. With a head wind setting up for a circle C is dangerous and dare I say it in reality pretty pointless. The cast which gives us the greatest tension and distance is the overhead. It also keeps the line away from the surf plus it is faster to execute. Time is at a premium in rolling surf. If the ocean is flat calm and the flags cracking then anything goes.

Have to disagree that both a traditional spey rod and switch rod which is just a short spey rod have much use out front. Yes better than trying to spey cast a single hander but still at the days end useless as are spey casts out front. Even slightly reduced full spey lines say to anything much over 35 feet for a 13 foot rod are not going to work effectively. To roll cast up a sunk fly at say a range of 55 feet to the surface in a head wind and surf in one or even two or three attempts is wishful thinking. To then lift off that amount of line cleanly in fizzy water is the stuff of dreams.

 

Mike

Hi Mike

Yes, I agree with you that rolling a long sunk line to the surface in the surf isn't realistic. I also agree the motion of the surf messes with spey casting basics to the point of it's not possible. I always felt the beauty of basic spey casting is the line and rod are doing the bulk of the work. A day's fishing is fairly easy on the fisherman.

 

In the surf, my best success was achieved by deploying a simple roll cost or 2 to get that 10 yards or so of line on the water that I could smartly lift and overhead cast, shooting as much running line as possible with little effort. My old fly lines (which were full spey lines) have been cut to a length that is in line with the end result of this technique for the surf. The 13ft double hander was much less effort and much more effective than the single-handed rod in getting distance.

 

For years on lochs, I've watched and even participated in the activity of using heavy line rated single handed rods and single / double haul casting in an effort to achieve distance, get the fly or lure out there. Over the course of a fishing day, it's all a bit too much work in my view 

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DST64,

 

Your way of casting Out Front is same as mine. Quick and powerful. I agree that the TH Out Front is way less effort than a single hand rod. We are in a ridiculously huge minority.  But heh who wants to be mainstream boring.


I also fish the single hander and if we are fit and have a good technical cast then really it should not kill us to cast them for a day. A decent double haul can take a lot of load away from the casting arm if it is good. But honestly it seems the need or desire to cast well is not currently popular. This is sad for me. Why would anyone settle for bang average. I am speaking generally here. I had the same mind set for 58 years until I got inspired having a free lesson with a Jim Fearn. You can google Jim up and see him cast. That lit the blue touch paper and I now love casting in its own right. For me it is five days a week at it. This is outside of actual fishing. 
If only more river fishers would learn to single hand spey cast it would be hugely helpful to them. On the dangle and a snap T or single spey and they are back fishing compared against multiple small angle change overhead casts.  Obstacles behind no probs.
 

mikey 

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