Switch Rods - revisited

[HL]

I'm going to raise some eyebrows here - with two issues.

 

Mike O - you here?

 

#1.  I built and casted 4-5 10'6" and 11'0" Switch rods 10-12 years ago.  Sold all of them because, as previously said here, they can't cut it in the Cape Cod surf when wind is up.

Well - the next time I will be on the Cape I will be 85 yrs old and do not stand in the surf any longer.  So, decided to buy a few Switch blanks.

10'6" #5

11'0" #6

11'6" #7

My old ones had "fancy" burled stabilized wood rings.  I'm done with that stuff.  The new ones will be plain cork.

Looking to swing flies in estuaries and cast and retrieve in calm open water.

Figure the #5 will handle a #8 line. #6 - a 9 line and the #7 a 10 line.

 

Not looking for more range than 80-90' 

 

#2.  I'll finally concede that a short (10'6" - 11'0") Switch can/may be single handed.

BUT - BUT - they were originally designed to either OH or Spey - not single handed.

I plan to make the fighting butts shorter than my old ones which were 5" long - which should make it easier to SH.

 

My favorite grip is the Ritz grip (modified with pronounced flair at top and bottom).  So, I'm going to make the 10'6" and probably the 11'0" with a Ritz grip at lower part - and an upside-down Ritz for upper part. 

The 11'6" will only be for 2 handed use.

 

Now it goes without saying that Mike's 12'9" rod will outperform any Switch rod in wind and distance.  But, I think the Switch will be enjoyable.

Herb

 

 

[flyangler]

11 mins ago, HL said:

I'm going to raise some eyebrows here - with two issues.

 

Mike O - you here?

 

#1.  I built and casted 4-5 10'6" and 11'0" Switch rods 10-12 years ago.  Sold all of them because, as previously said here, they can't cut it in the Cape Cod surf when wind is up.

Well - the next time I will be on the Cape I will be 85 yrs old and do not stand in the surf any longer.  So, decided to buy a few Switch blanks.

10'6" #5

11'0" #6

11'6" #7

My old ones had "fancy" burled stabilized wood rings.  I'm done with that stuff.  The new ones will be plain cork.

Looking to swing flies in estuaries and cast and retrieve in calm open water.

Figure the #5 will handle a #8 line. #6 - a 9 line and the #7 a 10 line.

 

Not looking for more range than 80-90' 

 

#2.  I'll finally concede that a short (10'6" - 11'0") Switch can/may be single handed.

BUT - BUT - they were originally designed to either OH or Spey - not single handed.

I plan to make the fighting butts shorter than my old ones which were 5" long - which should make it easier to SH.

 

My favorite grip is the Ritz grip (modified with pronounced flair at top and bottom).  So, I'm going to make the 10'6" and probably the 11'0" with a Ritz grip at lower part - and an upside-down Ritz for upper part. 

The 11'6" will only be for 2 handed use.

 

Now it goes without saying that Mike's 12'9" rod will outperform any Switch rod in wind and distance.  But, I think the Switch will be enjoyable.

Herb

 

 

Herb, will be interested in hearing how this goes. 

 

What blank(s) are you considering for this project? CTS I assume, which models? 

 

Tom (up in Palm Beach Gardens)

Edited January 17 by flyangler

[HL]

Tom,

Hi.

Yes - CTS 

CTS has a lot of Switch rod designs.

Oe I gave to Mike is a 12'3" 10 or 11.

I still have one at 13'6" #11 tgat has never been fished.

If I'm going to log around a rod that long it will be Mike's model.

I just want something short.

So it's simple:

They're all Switch action in 4 piece , as stated in my thread.

Those ARE the models.

 

I'm thinking of cutting down that 13'6" Switch to something approaching 11'6" - 12'0"

Herb

Edited January 17 by HL

[C. Regalis]

While I've no rod building experience at all this sounds like a very desirable configuration - nice design.

 

Besides estuaries / flat water I find myself wondering about fishing the number five in rivers for smallmouth - something else I'd planned to do before life so rudely interrupted me.

 

I can cast my 11' switch rod one-handed but I don't know why I would. And for sure not for hours on end.

 

Nice project, Herb!

Edited January 17 by C. Regalis

[Mike Oliver]

Herb 

 

The rod I got from you will cast an Airflow Beach Line a long way that is their 10 wt line at around 550 grains.   But it can’t do it in a head wind or a tail wind.

I have never done it but it probably would be better with a 300 grain line overhead. Herb if you would like you can have it returned to you. It is so light that it’s length would not trouble you.  I have no use for it any more and it will just sit in my loft gathering dust.

 

The Sage  Igniter 11’ 9”  7 wt Switch I purchased as a rod and it is very impressive . Great with Skagit lines and Scandi and is cool for overhead even with these lines so a wf line even better. I would seriously consider this rod/ blank Herb. Single handed of course for about six of them before going back to two.

 

 

Mike

 

This is not for you Herb. You know the craic.
 

Forgot the caveat I personally will never ever use a Switch rod in the ocean. I am lucky enough to still have very fit shoulders so will stick with my bigger TH and my 10 wt single handers. But that does not mean a Switch rod type of design would not suit others who are looking for some help that two hands on a rod can give. If that’s you fine but just don’t ever expect them to do a job Out Front. 

Edited January 17 by Mike Oliver

[HL]

Mike 

I find Sage SH rods too tip heavy - certainly compared to CTS.

That is probably less important in a TH rod.

I bet the swing weight of the Sage 11'9"#7 is heavier than the CTS 12'3" 10/11.

What is the actual line weight of that rod??

Do you get better OH performance with the Sage 11 9"??

Herb

 

 

 

[Mike Oliver]

Herb

 

I would need to weigh both rods.  It is close but the Sage probably edges it for me casting wise. Tip heavy on a TH rod is not nice Herb. Under 12 feet should not be a problem on any makers rod.

Offer is there Herb I am happy to return to you the CTS rod. I even used it with a std Wf 8 line on the reservoir that was a bit light but I got it out there.

Rods deserved to be used. 
 

mike

[Dorski]

@Mike Oliver I’m interested in the Igniter switch rod for beach OH casting.

Haven’t decided on which one, weight wise.

Can you give a indication on what grain weight you use for OH casting your Igniter 11’ 9”  7 wt?

[Mike Oliver]

Dorski

 

It is not that simple. I was casting Rio Max Launch and the Max Power. The launch is the better choice for the salt better loops. I was casting using C casts and Double Speys on a river.  The heads were around 450 grains. You need a tip which adds more weight. For overhead you need to reduce the line weight. For me that would be 300 grains. 
So if I was going to consider this rod for salt water I would buy a wf 30 foot head line weighing 300 grains. This would be a line that would also work on a single hand rod. There are many lines out there made to this spec.

But I would never ever consider a Switch rod for the ocean. A single hand 10 wt will out perform it and more so when casing to a head wind. They are noodle sticks.

 

I feel compelled to advise you that Switch rods are just about the worst rods for use in the ocean. Sheltered inlets back bays they will do a job. For a general purpose two hander for the beach forget about them and save both money and frustration of a very high level. They are essentially a short spey rod designed to be used in rivers. They just do not have the required power or flex profile for the ocean. You can use them as intended with skagit lines and Scandi lines in inlets and back bays. Casting them overhead with a 6 or 7 wt skagit line plus tip will be like casting porridge.

 

 

There is about 15 years of posts on the subject of TH rods on Sol. If you go back and read them it may become much clearer to you. I have been at the leading edge of this and it is fair to state that I do understand it and probably more than anyone else. When it comes to rods for open beach which we call Out Front they have probably attracted more BS and misinformation than any other. 
In short a river spey rod no matter its length is not suitable as a general purpose beach fly rod. I have tried them and they do not work for me and no reason why they should.

There are better solutions one is a specialist design specific route which some would consider expensive but you only buy once and the other is to adapt other rods from the carp fishing and spinning fraternity which can be incredibly low cost but lack portability as they tend to be two piece.

 

 

If you google up Jim Fearn casting a Sage Igniter Switch rod you will see him snap T casting this rod a very heavy fly. It is impressive but you can’t cast like that  in waves. In a river great rod but the ocean not on your nelly.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Mike

Edited January 18 by Mike Oliver

[changed]

I fished the Douglas 11'6" 8# a couple years ago in the surf, 500 grains of tungsten head w/ SA polyethylene running line and it put the boots to any stripers I caught, as well as a 5' sturgeon that ate a bunny fly. I think I'd prefer a slightly longer rod than a 10'6", but I'm an... enthusiastic caster... that may have hit himself in the head with a clouser on one or two occasions... 

[HL]

I think I have the bases covered with 10’6” to 11’6”.

I had the 10;6” and the 11’0” 10-12 yrs ago.

Sold the 11’ and donated the 10’6” to Casting for Recovery.  Lots of Burl wood on it. Wish I had it back.

Herb

 

[Dorski]

Thnx @Mike Oliver. Your post is very insightful and helps a lot in my decision making proces.

I have a TFO 1212 for OH beach/surf and am very pleased with it, but sometimes you want something new and maybe better.

I own a igniter 790 and I can say it’s the finest rod I own.

Extrapolating from this I thought the igniter switch rods are a possible replacement since reviews mentioned there really stiff.

 

Based on your info I’m gonna let the Igniter switch rod pass.

 

[Mike Oliver]

Dorski

 

The Igniter 690 and 790 are exceptional rods.  The reviews can be so misleading. The Igniter switch has more balls than many Switch rods but at the days end it is still a switch rod.  How anyone could describe it as stiff is beyond me. I have never seen a Switch rod that could be described as stiff. It seems anyone and every is jumping onto the review bandwagon and who knows what provenance they have as both Fishers and. Casters. 

Your 12 x12 is probably a better rod.

Just in case you are tempted the bigger Igniters and I have the 14 foot 9 wt and the 15 foot 10 wt are fantastic spey casting rods but neither are suitable for the surf Out Front. Just on length alone that causes problems trying to push a rod through a wind. They do cast very well OH but do not have the flex profile that is needed when fishing in waves. They would be an expensive mistake.

For the cost of a 15 foot Igniter you can pretty well much get a surf specific designed rod.

Mike

[KironaFly]

No exactly on topic but I couldn’t resist commenting just the same. Regarding wind and fly casting in the surf … all one can really do (regardless of fly rod type) is play the wind. Not ideal but a reality.

 

This is why I still use surf spinning rods when out front during a blow. Currently I’m planning a custom surf rod build that is light tackle. It will blend surf fly fishing (light weight 10ft rod blank) concepts with surf spinning (braid) distance casting concepts incorporating a Fuji K frame guide train. I’m using a BH Suzuki Special blank / model paired to a 10 oz spinning reel. Perfect for throwing smallish 1 oz lures. By definition a “2 Handed” solution for windy conditions.

 

Beyond that for my spring run wade fishing I’m using an 11ft custom build Sage HD Trout Spey rod (3wt / 250 to 300 grain heads) that I lucked into a year ago off eBay. Probably the best overall fly rod for Shad & Stripers I’ve ever used. And I use it 90% of the time as a single hand over-head casting unit. It would be perfect for those Rhody tidal pond outflows as well.

 

Good luck in you fishing Herb!

 

Edited January 23 by KironaFly
Spelling & grammar

[HL]

Hey

Thanks K Fly.

Be interested in lengths of the upper and lower grips to use as I build. 

You use heads and not intergrated lines with heavy heads??

Herb