Environment

[Dave588]

the most polluted state in the union had rolling roadblocks on pike this morning. Both directions, salting at 34 degrees. Not a visible snowflake on roadway. No telemetry in trucks to show actual weather or road conditions. Just one button to turn on road poison spreader. Lucky holiday payday. State can pollute at will and state employees know that they increased runoff temps by several degrees. It will seep into groundwater. Poison your kids as much as kill the fish fry. Turn lobsters black. Drivers are stuck in mile long backup know that road conditions were better without salting in a warm rain.

[jason colby]

Like fishery managers, "it appears that" every level of government is just as corrupt as the level above and below. OR, perhaps they are all completely incompetent.

In any case, to the public that has to deal with it/pay for it, what is the difference to our way of life and bottom line?

We deserve better!

[rst3]

Snowing at a good clip in Boston, as a heavier band rotates in off the ocean. Roads are slick and snow covered. 

 

8am

 

[mikez2]

It's a strange phenomenon to me that with so many really bad things to worry about, road salt is such a trigger for some here.

 

Not to say road salt isn't something to be concerned about. I just find it odd that almost universally guys that will curse the government as evil and corrupt for virtually any environmental controls, apparently are all full of anxiety about the environment because of a legitimate public safety effort.

 

Sounds more like somebody was late to work this morning. 

 

BTW, I'm still confused how California (the most polluted state) is causing "rolling roadblocks" on the mass pike?

[Dave588]

43 mins ago, rst3 said:

Snowing at a good clip in Boston, as a heavier band rotates in off the ocean. Roads are slick and snow covered. 

 

8am

 

Thats beautiful. Theres nothing there that tires dont crush out of the way. Its new england, on a holiday, with forecast of no accumulation.

 

[Dave588]

2 mins ago, mikez2 said:

It's a strange phenomenon to me that with so many really bad things to worry about, road salt is such a trigger for some here.

 

Not to say road salt isn't something to be concerned about. I just find it odd that almost universally guys that will curse the government as evil and corrupt for virtually any environmental controls, apparently are all full of anxiety about the environment because of a legitimate public safety effort.

 

Sounds more like somebody was late to work this morning. 

 

BTW, I'm still confused how California (the most polluted state) is causing "rolling roadblocks" on the mass pike?

There are other methods and chemicals to remove snow, or just live with it. Road salt is terrible for you and environment.

[b-ware]

4 mins ago, mikez2 said:

It's a strange phenomenon to me that with so many really bad things to worry about, road salt is such a trigger for some here.

 

Not to say road salt isn't something to be concerned about. I just find it odd that almost universally guys that will curse the government as evil and corrupt for virtually any environmental controls, apparently are all full of anxiety about the environment because of a legitimate public safety effort.

 

Sounds more like somebody was late to work this morning. 

 

BTW, I'm still confused how California (the most polluted state) is causing "rolling roadblocks" on the mass pike?

The judicious use of road salt (and other chemicals that no one seems to know about) is OK in most winter conditions.  Today is not one of them  Applying de-icing materials on snow more than a quarter of an inch deep is ineffective and inefficient.  A 50/50 mixture of sand and salt would prove to be a better solution to todays storm, but, comes spring time road sand has to be swept up and disposed of, so hgeavy iue of road salt makes more sense for the DOT budget.

[mikez2]

2 mins ago, Dave588 said:

There are other methods and chemicals to remove snow, or just live with it. Road salt is terrible for you and environment.

I'm not knowledgeable enough on the subject nor motivated enough to waste my morning googling it to debate which method of snow removal is best.

 

I do remember researching it in detail a few years ago regarding sensitive Amphibians which breed in our area.

What I remember is that there has been a great deal of research on which road treatment gives the best public safety while minimizing harm to the environment. 

Also, what I about know environmental consciousness in regards to the various states, Massachusetts is far from most polluted and actually pays a great deal of attention to the environmental compared to other states.

 

I don't have a big lifted truck with four wheel drive. More importantly, my ex wife's vehicle and the school bus that my kids ride in are not four wheel. I want to be sure the roads are safe for them.

 

What other environmental issues bother you like road salt? I didn't take you for a Prius type.

[mikez2]

7 mins ago, b-ware said:

The judicious use of road salt (and other chemicals that no one seems to know about) is OK in most winter conditions.  Today is not one of them  Applying de-icing materials on snow more than a quarter of an inch deep is ineffective and inefficient.  A 50/50 mixture of sand and salt would prove to be a better solution to todays storm, but, comes spring time road sand has to be swept up and disposed of, so hgeavy iue of road salt makes more sense for the DOT budget.

So your argument is not that the government spreads salt because they're corrupt, they just use ineffective and unsafe methods because they're too cheap to sweep the roads in spring?

 

 

Edited January 16 by mikez2

[Dave588]

1 min ago, mikez2 said:

I'm not knowledgeable enough on the subject nor motivated enough to waste my morning googling it to debate which method of snow removal is best.

 

I do remember researching it in detail a few years ago regarding sensitive Amphibians which breed in our area.

What I remember is that there has been a great deal of research on which road treatment gives the best public safety while minimizing harm to the environment. 

Also, what I about know environmental consciousness in regards to the various states, Massachusetts is far from most polluted and actually pays a great deal of attention to the environmental compared to other states.

 

I don't have a big lifted truck with four wheel drive. More importantly, my ex wife's vehicle and the school bus that my kids ride in are not four wheel. I want to be sure the roads are safe for them.

 

What other environmental issues bother you like road salt? I didn't take you for a Prius type.

There are better road treatments just more expensive. The best treatment is to remove the snow to the ocean, where it falls naturally. Everything in moderation, too much of anything will kill you.

Its a holiday, school buses wont be moving. If everyone can be forced to work remotely for a cold, they cant work remotely for weather?

 

[mikez2]

Just now, Dave588 said:

There are better road treatments just more expensive. The best treatment is to remove the snow to the ocean, where it falls naturally. Everything in moderation, too much of anything will kill you.

Its a holiday, school buses wont be moving. If everyone can be forced to work remotely for a cold, they cant work remotely for weather?

 

Serious question; what other environmental concern upsets you?

[Dave588]

1 min ago, mikez2 said:

So your argument is not that the government spreads salt because they're corrupt, they just use ineffective and unsafe methods because they're to cheap too sweep the roads in spring?

 

 

Govt is ineffective and inefficient. just dumping salt on every level of accumulation makes a mess. And sometimes creates worse road conditions.

[Dave588]

1 min ago, mikez2 said:

Serious question; what other environmental concern upsets you?

Killing everything ranks up there pretty high, in my book.

What environmental concerns bother you? 

Your getting "green" shoved down your throat everyday, see any of it working?

[mikez2]

Just now, Dave588 said:

Govt is ineffective and inefficient. just dumping salt on every level of accumulation makes a mess. And sometimes creates worse road conditions.

Alright, I assume since I asked twice and you avoided answering, you are not overly concerned by other environmental issues. 

Sounds to me like your not really worried about the pristine natural habitat that boarders the mass pike. You're just mad at the government. 

 

I make my living making the environment cleaner. Green regulations are the reason I get paid well to do it. 

I'm 100% convinced in the success of those efforts because every month we get the test results on how effective our efforts. 

Not to mention I've had my eyes open and my feet wet for the past 50 years and it's glaringly obvious that the efforts to clean our rivers are working. 

[Dave588]

8 mins ago, mikez2 said:

Alright, I assume since I asked twice and you avoided answering, you are not overly concerned by other environmental issues. 

Sounds to me like your not really worried about the pristine natural habitat that boarders the mass pike. You're just mad at the government. 

 

I make my living making the environment cleaner. Green regulations are the reason I get paid well to do it. 

I'm 100% convinced in the success of those efforts because every month we get the test results on how effective our efforts. 

Not to mention I've had my eyes open and my feet wet for the past 50 years and it's glaringly obvious that the efforts to clean our rivers are working. 

You dont have any reason to assume anything for me. I have been to other areas, such as ca, and i have never seen dirtier areas next to waterways. 

I drive past a reservior in framingham that has a low salt sign by the road which only means salt truck goes by more often. And road theres always a mess.

I am concerned about natural habitat, not some latest "green" political fad. You cant say that your testing groundwater and road salt isnt a concern?