flyangler

KNOT preference for direct tie with 200# mono?

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Question may seem basic but becoming important as I try to move away from using TA clips with big poppers like those shown. 

 

What is your preferred knot for connecting 150-200# hard mono leader to the nose of a popper or attached split-ring? Rigging is 14K reel with 65# braid connected by FG to 200# mono. Given the 65#, the terminal knot does NOT have to be close to 100% strength, in theory even 50% covers the braid. The key is a tight connection to the plug to maximize water throw. 

 

I have zero experience tying 200# with a tight knot, having used crimps in the past. Loop knot won't work with mono that thick - even if you could tighten it, the knot will remain an open loop, sloppy connection. 

 

This is a question often asked about giant trevalleys and the like because of their size and power. In this case, large jack crevalle in structure and the need for a heavy fray leader. Also, where the big JCs are, the blacktip sharks can be also, thus a bite leader just in case. Though when poppers are rigged intentionally for sharks, we use 300-400# mono and that requires crips. 

 

So clinch? regular or improved? 

palomar?

uni?

SD jam?

figure 8?

joe miller? 

 

Yeah, lame question but I am interested in what people are actually using. Especially any of you tuna and GT anglers. 

 

Buy Rapala X-Rap Magnum Xplode Popper online at Marine-Deals.com.au

 

Buy Nomad Design Chug Norris Popper 120mm 45g online at Marine-Deals.co.nz

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Any knot that I tie using 100 pound test mono or higher pound test I lubricate, pull it up tight and then place a drop of glue on the knot to assist holding it from opening..

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Uni knot or a loop knot. I use my own variation of the non-slip loops knot. Only needs two wraps around the mainline. use this from 6 pound to 200+

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Regular clinch knot will work, probably only going to be able to get like 3 or 4 wraps and then hook it to something secure and pull with your body weight.  

 

To be honest for tuna popping I stopped using knots a while ago and now just crimp anything over 100 lbs.

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Posted (edited)

Centauri knot with just 2/3 loops for 100lb+ leader for non loop knot, or the 'Legutki loop' if you look on millhousepodcast. I have tied the legutki with 300lb mono and it's great. 

Edited by Snook_Slayr

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Another for just crimping anything over 100 lbs. Too easy to screw up with line that thick and stiff when making a knot.

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10 mins ago, FallenKell said:

Another for just crimping anything over 100 lbs. Too easy to screw up with line that thick and stiff when making a knot.

Agree. Crimp and be done.

 

It would be interesting to see some pull test results. Have to get a vehicle and scale involved. 

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So here is my current setup, 200#, long crimp, 175# TA clip. First is big Yozuri popper, second Chug Norris. That TA clip going on and off the Yozuri is easy. On the Nomad plug not so much - need to use pliers to orient the TA clip to catch the connection. 

 

One thing about these popper and that setup that has me thinking direct - the hinging of the connection dampens the water throw of the plug. I am trying to get away from that and a direct crimp is only going to remove the TA, the plug can still swing on a crimped loop. 

 

Plus, I am the type who likes to change lures, no discipline to stick with it. One alternative would be so knot the 200# to a solid ring and put a split ring on the nose of the plugs to which the solid ring is connected. Still offers some hinging, but will be far less than a crimped loop and TA clip. 

 

Jacks were not there that morning, hence the photos. 

 

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85CFBC53-0FF6-43C1-8EBD-FE8537DB6759_1_105_c.jpeg.dba564be777010375ac4428c50c3bf73.jpeg

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We used 200# Black Widow mono tied directly to hook while live baiting giant tuna. Palomar knot was the connection, wetted and tightened using a cleat as an anchor point. Stuff did go wrong but never a knot fail.

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Posted (edited)

I'd want something with a loop when tying that heavy. I would think a tight knot like clinch or uni with 200# mono might make a lure run different. 

 

I've rigged with 250# or using a rapala knot but with just one or two twists, then glued it. my main line was 80, held fine.

 

Like you said, the 65# braid is your weak point... even at 30# of drag, you're only at 15% of your leader strength.

 

EDIT: just saw what you said about less water getting throw with a hinging connection...

 

SO... a uni with just a 2 or 3 turns would be my call... and as said by others, pulled tight against something solid then glued.

Edited by billthe5th
I can't read

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Posted (edited)

53 mins ago, billthe5th said:

I'd want something with a loop when tying that heavy. I would think a tight knot like clinch or uni with 200# mono might make a lure run different. 

I am in full agreement that if you have a subsurface lure, you would want a loop or clip into the note to allow full range of action. 

Quote

I've rigged with 250# or using a rapala knot but with just one or two twists, then glued it. my main line was 80, held fine.

 

Like you said, the 65# braid is your weak point... even at 30# of drag, you're only at 15% of your leader strength.

yes, even with a bruiser 30-40# jack, you are not going to strain that 65# braid, assuming no nicks or frays. the heavy mono is strictly for abrasion resistance or the chance of hooking a jumping blacktip. 

 

Quote

EDIT: just saw what you said about less water getting throw with a hinging connection...

see image below of friend Mike, look out at the water. that is a chug norris 180 and i caught it mid-spray. he ties direct, i think with a short clinch knot, but never asked. if there is a big hinge at the nose, the popper can actually dig in and get pulled below surface

Quote

SO... a uni with just a 2 or 3 turns would be my call... and as said by others, pulled tight against something solid then glued.

pretty much sounds like 2-3 turn uni or clinch is preferred by many. many of the west coast tuna guys seem to prefer knots where you get two wraps around the hook eye or lure point. the idea being that two wraps spread out the strain, reduce abrasion risk and make for a knot that is less likely to slip

 

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Edited by flyangler

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12 mins ago, flyangler said:

I am in full agreement that if you have a subsurface lure, you would want a loop or clip into the note to allow full range of action. 

yes, even with a bruiser 30-40# jack, you are not going to strain that 65# braid, assuming no nicks or frays. the heavy mono is strictly for abrasion resistance or the chance of hooking a jumping blacktip. 

 

see image below of friend Mike, look out at the water. that is a chug norris 180 and i caught it mid-spray. if there is a big hinge at the nose, the popper can actually did in and get dragged below surface, 

pretty much sounds like 2-3 turn uni or clinch is preferred by many. many of the west coast tuna guys seem to prefer knots where you get two wraps around the hook eye or lure point. the idea being that two wraps spread out the strain, reduce abrasion risk and make for a knot that is less likely to slip

 

C0A346CB-CE61-4F4F-8391-69CC7C0D380E_1_105_c.jpeg.bd51dbee316e2ad09881b1c7180061da.jpeg

Just curious, how often do Blacktips hit your popper when targeting jacks? I use 130 for tarpon and dont have many issues, and I’ve caught tons of blacktips that eat my poon lures.  Also, I’ve noticed that if a Blacktip inhales your lure 200 mono would probably get cut off anyways and it might be better to just add wire if the sharks are around. 

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3 mins ago, TheReelLuke said:

Just curious, how often do Blacktips hit your popper when targeting jacks?

All depends on whether there is bait around or not. If there is bait, then the sharks can be around the jacks. We have had days where you could walk up to that stretch of beach and see half eaten snook, pomps or small jacks washed up on the beach. it does not happen always, but if the whole foodchain is there, the sharks will likely be around. 

 

during the mullet run, you can have jacks, blues, snook, blacktips and bull sharks all in the mix, with the big bulls focused on the jacks and blues. and no easier target than a 10+ pound jack or blue hooked up to a line for a hungry shark. how many "tax collector" experiences have you had? 

3 mins ago, TheReelLuke said:

I use 130 for tarpon and dont have many issues, and I’ve caught tons of blacktips that eat my poon lures.  

On open beach, no structure, we can get by with 80-125. I use 80 mono with my lighter rod on 40# braid. and 125 on open beach with the 65. 

 

it is when you are fishing jetties, reefs or old submerged seawalls/jetties then we bang up the abrasion resistance with 200#. 

3 mins ago, TheReelLuke said:

Also, I’ve noticed that if a Blacktip inhales your lure 200 mono would probably get cut off anyways and it might be better to just add wire if the sharks are around. 

i am not the most accomplished shark guy but among the sharpies, there is definitely a separation on whether you can use wire with topwaters. some see no issue with a foot of wire to a swivel and 4-5' of 200# to an FG or PR knot or swivel. Others feel wire inhibits the action of popper or skip baits and want all mono. those guys, if rigging specifically for sharks, will bot 300 or 400# mono for the extra diameter. 

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