hurricane1091

Best knot for braid?

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, BeachBob said:

The best knot I've used for braid to mono (main line to leader for a spinner, or main line to top shot for a revolver) in terms of the greatest knot strength is the FG and I can get it to break at the end of the knot every time at about 85% of the braid's rated strength. 

 

The FG knot is also the smallest and slimmest of all the braid to leader knots that I know of, and I've probably tied them all, or their variations, over the last 70+ years.  I can only correctly tie an FG when not fishing because it takes a bit of dexterity and time for me to get it right so that I can trust its reliability whence fishing. 

 

A leader knot that's not needed to go through the rod guides, and is easy to tie almost blindfolded, or in bad weather or seas, is a slightly modified Alberto, or a knot that I've recently developed that I call the OTB - overhand to braid.  A close second to these is a 6 turn surgeon knot.

 

The Alberto and Albright are similar, slim knots once you get up in to the 50# test braid n mono, it seems to go through the guides ok on a casting rod,  uni to uni  not so much.

On an 11 ft spinning rod I had issues with Alberto n Albright   maybe I should have done more wraps?? Made it  longer profile.???

Edited by Snaps

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Posted (edited)

Both the Alberto and Albright will have the mono leader tag ends facing the guides going out on a cast - not good.

 

I've FINALLY got the FG knot figured out easy peasy.  ;)  That's for a spinner shock leader or revolver topshot.  :)

 

 

 

 

Edited by BeachBob

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23 hours ago, BeachBob said:

Both the Alberto and Albright will have the mono leader tag ends facing the guides going out on a cast - not good.

 

I've FINALLY got the FG knot figured out easy peasy.  ;)  That's for a spinner shock leader or revolver topshot.  :)

 

 

 

 

LOL that FG knot is beyond my scope of comprehension

But if it is cut in tight  shld be fine.

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6 hours ago, Snaps said:

LOL that FG knot is beyond my scope of comprehension

But if it is cut in tight  shld be fine.

FG is easy if you practice. 
 

I carry my “PR” bobbin (a mildly altered fly bobbin) and that’s easier on the beach. 
 

Easiest of all is the extra turn palomar to swivel & short leader to clip via knot of your choice. 

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I just dont have the patience for fg knot

 

i use clinch knot or uni knot to clip 

 

for braid to leader i use improved alberto.  I used to use albright or alberto but over the last few years I exclusively use improved.  All that means to me is back through rhe loop four times.  There is a thread in main about this.  

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There are "Assist 2.0" knot jigs that are s'posed to make wrapping the FG, SC, PR easier.  I tried one and still find using fingers easier for the FG.

 

The FG knot is not for everyone.  If one of the figure 8 coils are not tight or are overlapped, the knot will lose strength and upon a cast or fish retrieval the payload (lure or weight 'n' bait) will be gone in a NY minute as the leader slides out of those coil wraps.  A newly wrapped FG must be tested to near its busting strength (about 85%) before it can be relied on when needed. 

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Shock, payload and bite leaders ....

 

There are plenty of good braid-to-mono leaders like the Alberto and Albright, but both will have the mono shock leader stub pointing at the guides during a cast.  For me, they're fine for any leader that'll be past the rod tip top for casting. 

 

If the FG is bear to tie (and it sure can be!), a darned good braid-to-mono/fluoro knot is the double double uni.  Double up just the braid for 8 uni turns, do NOT double up the mono or fluorocarbon leader for 6 turns.  The leader will poke out the side of the knot and can be trimmed flush for a good run through the rod guide gauntlet.  This knot will be at least twice the diameter of the FG, however, which won't be much of an issue for light lines and leaders, but might be for the heavier mono/fluoro leaders.    

 

You can see the mono leader tag poking out at 90* to the mono uni knot pic below.  This can be cut flush and not left as shown.  The doubled braid trails off the end and that too can be cut flush.  Any knot can also have a tiny drop quality water thin CYA glue applied for added knot insurance.

 

63761f42c7b3d_Screenshotfrom2022-11-1706-45-44.png.98a2760b649d0c37ef9f67a9d9fcb6d1.png

 

For the most part, most any popular knot that's well tied will break right @ the knot itself and @ no less than 70% and that'll be good enuf, at it has been for many decades.

 

 

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3 hours ago, BeachBob said:

There are "Assist 2.0" knot jigs that are s'posed to make wrapping the FG, SC, PR easier.  I tried one and still find using fingers easier for the FG.

 

The FG knot is not for everyone.  If one of the figure 8 coils are not tight or are overlapped, the knot will lose strength and upon a cast or fish retrieval the payload (lure or weight 'n' bait) will be gone in a NY minute as the leader slides out of those coil wraps.  A newly wrapped FG must be tested to near its busting strength (about 85%) before it can be relied on when needed. 

Yeah, i just don't see the need for an FG knot.  I mean we are fishing for bass.  a uni to uni is fine.  I happen to like the improved alberto.  

 

Maybe it's just more practice. but I haven't lost a fish on the knots i use, so i ask why do i need the FG?  

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I used the uni to uni for a few seasons with close to 100% success. Only failures that I had can be attributed to the few times when it was casted through the guides and either failed outright or broke off after casting and under load. 

 

I like a longer leader around the rocks and will regularly have a 6-8 ft leader. I still dont love casting any knot through the guides but this season tied on the FG when I was using an 8 ft leader for the "accidental" reel to far and cast through the guides or an improved albright for albies and for "shorter" 6 ft leader. I had zero failures this year both from the shore or from a boat.

 

The FG is definitely daunting at first but there are a few tutorials online for a quick tie and once you get a feel for the idea its pretty easy. Plus because you aren't breaking it off it can be tied beforehand, in the light, in the basement or yard and there is almost no need to re-tie in the field. The only time I had a re-tie this year was when I had to cut my own line in a tangle at a breachway and at that point I just did the Albright improved which is pretty easy even in the dark.

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For me, the FG is a "tie at home" braid-to-mono leader knot that if done properly will yield 85% strength using 50# mono and 30# braid.  Lots of anglers should not tie this knot, or any other "figure 8" knot unless they really know what their doing and have tested finished knots to at least 70% of the the main line rated test poundage. 

 

The beauty of an FG (or GT, SC, PR, etc) is that its forward end will shoot thru the guides during a cast since there is no forward tag end to grab the guides.

 

An Alberto or Albright style knot will both have leader (mono or fluoro) tag end nubs at their forward end (that will cast thru the guides).  This might be a friction or hang up problem for the knot, the guides, and resulting distance cast.

 

That said, for a 50# mono leader and most any braid diameter, I'll use an Improved Alberto knot for a quick tie that I can trust every time, but with the mono tag end cut flush to the knot's forward end.  This typically yields a 75% or more overall knot strength.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Goldy said:

Yeah, i just don't see the need for an FG knot.  I mean we are fishing for bass.  a uni to uni is fine.  I happen to like the improved alberto.

For me, it all depends on whether the knot is going to pass through the guides when casting.  With my spinning set-ups, I have 2-3 feet of leader, and it doesn't pass through the guides. Most knots work fine: double uni, albright, alberto, FG. etc.  

 

For my conventional set-ups, i have a shock leader that is much longer - several wraps around the reel. For this purpose, the know will go flying through all the guides when I cast. For this purpose, I want the smallest know possible, and I want to reduce the possibility of the tag end snagging a guide.  I can tie a double uni faster than I can tie an FG, but for my conventional set-ups, I take the little bit of extra time to tie FGs.

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Posted (edited)

I've been testing out this "no-name" (carrot?) knot and I find it's far easier to tie than the FG because no line tension is required during its build.  So far I'm getting a good 85% knot strength after tying 11 of these knots - some knots are closer to 95%.  Since the leader (mono or fluoro) will have a half loop, that will increase it's overall diameter, so it's about the same as a mono-to-mono main to leader uni/loop knot (18lb main to 80lb leader).  Flies through the guides nicely, and the leader tag end is at the back of the knot, and the braid twist is forward (same as an FG knot).

 

With the no-name knot (shown below - Reaction 50lb mono leader and Hercules 4s 30lb braid) the braid tag and main line go directly through the leader loop - no other knots are tied with the braid - this gives a direct straight pull of the main without rubbing on a braid knot.  The main will still bust right as it comes out of the leader loop, as it should, and the braid coils around the leader are still tight.

 

no-name.jpg.0a49dbc1345d6a6ef0306f5736e29212.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by BeachBob

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