Madfish

F150 Electric on sand

119 posts in this topic

5 hours ago, Madfish said:

It will probably be another model or two down the road but we'll all be driving EV trucks soon enough (yes, haters, you will too) and we won't die in spontaneous car fires and we won't get stranded on beaches or remote roads any more than we do now. 

 

I don't think the older crowd will, to be honest.  We're only going to be reaching a tipping point in a few years.  Part of the adoption problem will be the supply of used cars.  For those in the 60 and over crowd, it's very likely they won't ever own an EV in their lifetime.

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22 mins ago, The Fishing Nerd said:

I don't think the older crowd will, to be honest.  We're only going to be reaching a tipping point in a few years.  Part of the adoption problem will be the supply of used cars.  For those in the 60 and over crowd, it's very likely they won't ever own an EV in their lifetime.

Yep, for the 4x4 crowd I think it could be 10-15 years before they are substantial part of the fleet.

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54 mins ago, The Fishing Nerd said:

It's a fair headline and it's a concern - but there are 95,000 EVs registered in the state of Florida, and Hurricane Ian was responsible for 4 of them catching fire.

 

There were probably fewer people injured from this than falling pianos.

I think at the time of the article and the fire marshals comment there was only one fire, maybe two. None exploded and certainly not all over the state. 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Madfish said:

Yep, for the 4x4 crowd I think it could be 10-15 years before they are substantial part of the fleet.

In 10-15 years we probably won’t be allowed to drive on the beach anyways. 

Edited by z-man
Typo

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On 10/4/2022 at 10:54 PM, Reel1in said:

Electric vehicles are torque machines i would like to see one cruising on the beachbwithout digging in.

You're still going to have to deflate, torque machines or not, and I will watch with interest for the first reports of battery endurance when people start taking EVs on the beach. And there have been claims that EVs flooded in Ian are catching fire, and that'll be of some interest as well.

 

You KNOW someone (almost certainly a male adolescent, with Dad's vehicle) is going to drive in the wash, telling his excited GF to "watch my wake!"

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, The Fishing Nerd said:

Four.  The same article quotes that four vehicles caught fire.  Out of 95,000 registered in Florida.  Maybe Jimmy Patronis can't count to 4.

So far, they expect many more as the corrosion sets in

I wouldn't be parking it close to my house much less in the garage 

Edited by Sudsy

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2 mins ago, Sudsy said:

So far, they expect many more as the corrosion sets in

I wouldn't be parking it close to my house much less in the garage 

Drag it out to the street and let it burn. It’s scrap metal just like all the ice cars that were in the storm surge. Get a new one with the insurance money and move on. 

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5 mins ago, Sudsy said:

So far, they expect many more as the corrosion sets in

I wouldn't be parking it close to my house much less in the garage 

 

1 min ago, z-man said:

Drag it out to the street and let it burn. It’s scrap metal just like all the ice cars that were in the storm surge. Get a new one with the insurance money and move on. 

My point here, and the reason I brought up these Ian cars,  is that I wouldn't want to have an electric vehicle on the beach where salt is going to cause corrosion. 

 

My diesel Ford Excursion rotted away around the engine even though I was really good about rinsing it down after hitting the sand (Fords are known for this) - I an electric Ford a good idea for beach driving ??

I doubt it.

 

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29 mins ago, Sudsy said:

 

My point here, and the reason I brought up these Ian cars,  is that I wouldn't want to have an electric vehicle on the beach where salt is going to cause corrosion. 

 

My diesel Ford Excursion rotted away around the engine even though I was really good about rinsing it down after hitting the sand (Fords are known for this) - I an electric Ford a good idea for beach driving ??

I doubt it.

 

What about all the people that have been driving Teslas on salty winter roads for over ten years now? Are they exploding?

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2 hours ago, Sudsy said:

So far, they expect many more as the corrosion sets in

I wouldn't be parking it close to my house much less in the garage 

I don't know who 'they' is - because corrosion isn't going to set in - these are hermetically sealed battery packs.  That's why they're able to run in deeper water than your traditional ICE engine.

 

Now that hermetic seal could just as easily be compromised in the case of physical damage to the car, but that would be no different from gasoline leaking if an ICE car ended up with physical damage.  The only difference there between the two would be the difficulty in putting out the fire should the lithium pack be compromised.

 

In the case of the one fire mentioned above - it's curious that the fire is raging from the top instead of the bottom, where the EV's battery cluster is.  Makes you wonder just how accurate this report is, because that fire looks a lot like the 12V battery caught fire, not the lithium ion pack.

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I would be curious to know what the lease rates are for EVs. With a lease, you're basically paying for the depreciation of the car during the lease term + profit for the lessor.   Considering the life span of a battery is 10 years, I bet they depreciate pretty quickly.  There are some sites that say they depreciate by 50% or more.

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Posted (edited)

On 10/5/2022 at 0:42 PM, CapeDave said:

No I believe that the change of the point of pollution is not change.

Pollution from the manufactory of the battery's also in disposing of them.

Where does the electricity come from windmills and solar, look up the defects in both of them manufacturing and disposal.

Follow the science.  

I understand your points, but I don't get your fixed position. Perhaps (and I mean perhaps) everything you say is true right now.  That's fine, but it won't be in 10 years, 20 years, 50 years, 100 years.. All new technology  goes through an evolutionary phase where it gets better, cheaper and more efficient. We learn as much about what we should do in the future as what we shouldn't. It's how science works (refuted hypotheses are sometimes more valuable that supported ones, follow  true scientific discovery).    It  just can't happen all at once, and unfortunately politics, personal opinion and greed often hamper advancement.  There are growing pains. This is happening now.  Look at the combustion engine. There are plenty of incidences where new tech was scorned in the past and is now is commonplace, accepted and has made the tech better.  In the 70's every "carburetor" mechanic criticized fuel injection. It's too complicated, it will gum up, it's expensive, etc. Same with the catalytic converter.  You're like the guy who said, no thanks, I'll stick to my horse rather than that loud, smelly, highly polluting thing on wheels. Electric is here, it's not going away, it will get much better through trial and error, we pay the price now for the future as our parents and grandparents did for us,  and the next generation will think us silly for our current views. 

Edited by SG1

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^^^^^ what he said.

 

For the next decade, IMHO, hybrids will be the optimal move forward.  I don't see current battery technology as being up to riding freely on the beach, and then getting you home after you re-inflate your tires. Those who try had best be very mindful of battery capacity remaining.

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On 10/12/2022 at 4:44 PM, bass-o-matic said:

I would be curious to know what the lease rates are for EVs. With a lease, you're basically paying for the depreciation of the car during the lease term + profit for the lessor.   Considering the life span of a battery is 10 years, I bet they depreciate pretty quickly.  There are some sites that say they depreciate by 50% or more.

The lease rates are quirky.  Unlike ICE cars there's a huge difference from one car maker to the next in terms of the depreciation rates they build in and options (some won't allow you to buy-out at the end of your lease, others like Tesla had discontinued it entirely for a while there).  Because demand currently outstrips supply, the cars themselves are depreciating at a slower than normal rate (and in some cases, appreciating, though that's slowing down as well due to supply).

 

My car has roughly 8k miles on it and I can sell it for $12k more than I paid for it.  I don't expect that to continue, and part of that is the price jumped at least $6k from the time that I put a deposit to the several months it took for delivery.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, BrianBM said:

^^^^^ what he said.

 

For the next decade, IMHO, hybrids will be the optimal move forward.  I don't see current battery technology as being up to riding freely on the beach, and then getting you home after you re-inflate your tires. Those who try had best be very mindful of battery capacity remaining.

Honest question - how far do you expect to be running on sand?

 

The ranges in these vehicles are in the 250-300 mile range.  Assuming you plan on driving entirely on sand and get half, that's 125-150 miles.  You don't want to go below 20% of your battery capacity just to be safe, so let's knock it down to 100-120 miles.  Are people really driving those distances on sand?

Edited by The Fishing Nerd

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