Braid/Swivel question

[Accebere]

What I’ve been doing for a few years is tie the braid to my mono leader with Red Phillips knot. Then I use a palomar knot to tie the leader to the swivel and the attach a clip to the swivel. This way you don’t have to worry about cranking the swivel through your top eye. Works like a charm. 

[Blank Disc]

Palomar to swivel. 

 

I can't think of any reason to not use a swivel (i.e. joining braid directly to leader) for the type of fishing I do. Only occasional drawbacks are sometimes I drop a swivel on the ground or floor or in the car, or sometimes blues will go for the swivel and cut the line. I change leaders too frequently to not use a swivel. 

[albacized]

Thanks a lot - Not tried the palomar out in the field yet. But initial tests here at home are very promising. I use 20 and 30 lb Suffix 832 (depending what reel I'm running) and primarily fishing false albacore, stripers and bluefish up here in New England or bigger jacks, snook, etc down in FL

[Frede]

Been using the improved clinch since braid first came out. I go through the eye of the swivel twice b4 tying the knot.  I've caught double header monster blues in heavy surf without issue.  I re-tie every 2-3 times out and avoid tying any knot on the beach baring emergency.  I'll admit rigging this way is not ideal because I bump the guide with the swivel in the dark, but having the swivel there gives me the ability to go quick on/off of a teaser which I like. No knocking anyone's rigs it's just what I do.

[EBHarvey]

On 9/5/2022 at 8:39 AM, albacized said:

Have kind of a stupid question...I've always just joined my braid to leader directly with a double uni...But I'm thinking about using a swivel. My question is...will clinch knots work with today's braid (specifically using Suffix 832)? I recall many years ago, you needed special 'braid' knots for fireline and other early braided lines. If not a clinch knot, what should I use? I feel bad in that about 10 years ago, I went through a phase of using a small swivel with braid, but can't recall for the life of me what kind of knot i used (I'm guessing clinch knot since I don't recall tying any funky 'braid' knots...but not sure) 

 

 

I always just used a clinch knot, never had one come undone as far as I can remember.  I dropped the swivel switched to tying direct with an alberto knot years ago, once I realized the swivel wasn't serving any purpose.

[Camhabib]

Out of curiosity for those using braid>swivel>leader, what's the advantage of this over braid>leader>swivel and using your knot of choice (FG, etc) to allow the union to pass through the guides?

 

I had been doing the former but kept smashing the swivel into my tip and had to keep the leader much shorter.

Edited September 9, 2022 by Camhabib

[JimmyBean]

On 9/5/2022 at 9:33 AM, surfrat59 said:

I pass the braid thru the eye of the swivel twice, then a 7 turn uni knot to secure...

This. Have to go through twice with braid. Learned this lesson early and I've never had a probelm.

[EBHarvey]

49 mins ago, Camhabib said:

Out of curiosity for those using braid>swivel>leader, what's the advantage of this over braid>leader>swivel and using your knot of choice (FG, etc) to allow the union to pass through the guides?

 

Why use a swivel at all in that case?  And how are you attaching your lure if there's a swivel on the end of your line?

[Camhabib]

4 mins ago, EBHarvey said:

 

Why use a swivel at all in that case?  And how are you attaching your lure if there's a swivel on the end of your line?

I figured the swivel was necessary as some of the plugs I use (i.e. Lil Doc) cause a good amount of line rotation in my hands. I've been doing braid>FG>mono>swivel>TA>lure. 

[MainelySmallies]

4 mins ago, EBHarvey said:

 

Why use a swivel at all in that case?  And how are you attaching your lure if there's a swivel on the end of your line?

Guessing he means a snap swivel.

57 mins ago, Camhabib said:

Out of curiosity for those using braid>swivel>leader, what's the advantage of this over braid>leader>swivel and using your knot of choice (FG, etc) to allow the union to pass through the guides?

 

I had been doing the former but kept smashing the swivel into my tip and had to keep the leader much shorter.

If you’re good about making your leaders the same length you can get a feel for when to stop reeling before you hit the tip. I’m too lazy to measure my leaders consistently so it’s either smash the top or go without a swivel.

[charliestriper]

I am a sucker for research and hard data.

 

A dozen years ago Berkley did a series of tests and called it “knot wars”. They tied knots and pulled on the line until the line/knot broke. 
 

In 2010, in the seventh and final round for “Knots tied to hook and swivel”, the Berkley braid knot won. 
 

If you do a google search you can 1.) watch the knot wars test 2.) watch a separate video to better see how it is tied.

 

My only warning is that for braid 20 pounds or less, and/or for coated slick braids to make at least 10 turns of the doubled line rather than just the 8 stated in the video.

 

(And a special thanks to you, Albacized, for all your helpful posts.)

[PSeggs]

19 hours ago, Camhabib said:

Out of curiosity for those using braid>swivel>leader, what's the advantage of this over braid>leader>swivel and using your knot of choice (FG, etc) to allow the union to pass through the guides?

 

I had been doing the former but kept smashing the swivel into my tip and had to keep the leader much shorter.

I use a swivel to connect my leader to braid for a simple reason.

 

I can't tie a direct knot well unless I'm sitting in a well lit, windless environment. 

 

 

My hand dexterity sucks balls and I can't see small stuff all that well. 

But I can tie a Palomar and imp cinch just about anywhere just by feel alone.  And those knots will hold!

 

If ur worried about runnin the swivel into the guides, put a bead infront.  You'll stop hitting it eventually. 

 

 

Eta. Spro makes ridiculously small yet strong swivels. 

Edited September 10, 2022 by PSegnatelli

[Frede]

On 9/9/2022 at 10:21 AM, Camhabib said:

Out of curiosity for those using braid>swivel>leader, what's the advantage of this over braid>leader>swivel and using your knot of choice (FG, etc) to allow the union to pass through the guides?

 

I had been doing the former but kept smashing the swivel into my tip and had to keep the leader much shorter.

Advantage of B-S-L is quick on/off with a teaser and quick retie of a new leader.  Disadvantage is banging the swivel on your rod tip.  The quick retie of a new leader is somewhat mitigated if you go with a long section of leader and FG to braid as you can cut back if you get nicked.  The possibility of a wind-knot at night is also there so you either have to be comfortable retying FG to braid or carry a leader and go B-S-L for the night.  That's my take for what it's worth...        

[Jeff1995]

Tying braid to swivel, I always use a double palmar knot and it has never slipped or broke on me.

[R.R. Bridge Fisher]

I hate Swivels, no matter how hard I try I always reel in too far in the middle of the night. 

I like an Alberto with a dab of glue, and a Palomar to my clip.

I can tell it's a solid setup when I get hung up on the bottom jigging the canal and try to break off.

You should be confident in your knots.