Daiwa Ballistic 35-405 build - needs help

[PAKings]

I been trying to build 3 of these rods for the past couple of months.  Tinkering with the guide layouts and can't seem to get it right.  What I am doing wrong?

 

Right now, the guides are:

RV25 36 inch from reel seat

KW16 67 inch as choke point

then KW12,KW10, KW10, KW10, Tip top.

 

What can I change to improve on distance when using the Saragossa 6000 and fireline 8lbs braid.  I can only managed 130-135 yards with a standard overhead cast but I feel that these rods are capable of more with the initial sinker acceleration.

[ZAFisher]

RV25H then KW16 31" further out with no guides in between? No. Nein. Non, Niet.

I can guarantee that the line is billowing between the two guides and slapping and possibly wrapping around the blank causing drag.

Should be running RV25H RV16H KW12M KW10M then your KW10's and probably need a few extra of those. You could drop the KW12M and go straight from the RV16H to a KW10M, but as it is a pretty long rod, I think you should be using both KWM's

I'll have a look at a drawing for you; remind me as to the factory-fitted reel seat's position

Also:

1. What were you "only" managing 130yds with

2. What leader setup are you using?

3. 36" from reel seat - measured from where?

 

Does the butt-to-reel seat arrangement look like this?

 

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by ZAFisher

[PAKings]

Thank you and am so glad you responded.  I was copying the factory rod layout guide positions (modified the position a bit with first 2 guides) with exact same number of guides.  The factory rod uses low riders with 6 guides + tip (20, 16, 12, 10, 8, 8, then 10tip).  My reel seat position is 30 inches from the butt and factory rod is about 29inches.

 

130 yards is casting with a only a 5.6 oz bank sinkers.  I FG  30lbs fireline to 8lbs fireline just enough to wrap about 6 times around my spool.

 

The 36 inch from reel seat is measure from the spinning reel foot.  The reel foot is roughly 760mm from the end of the butt.

Edited August 29, 2022 by PAKings

[spoonplugger1]

This is the problem we have always had for decades, first with NGC, now with KR, the guides are not the secret. They put the cute little tags hanging from a guide to say they are, but it's the guides and THE NGC, OR KR SYSTEM developed to go with these guides. You can not seperate the two and get the best balance and performance from your rod, PERIOD. Go to Angler Resource / Fuji site and watch the videos, than use the KR system software to help you setup your rod to the reel correctly, please do both, it will help you the most that way.

[SurffisherMike]

as stated way to much space and going from the high 25 to a low kw16 is gonna be a mess on your line flow. also if you are building it yourself, forget the stock layout not a good resource. The Anglers resource site is the place to start then ask a few questions

[cbinvb]

Also, if you're trying to maximize distance, ditch the Fireline.

 

 

[ZAFisher]

Try this for a layout to tape up. It should work with a bigger reel too ie a 10k or perhaps a 14 Saragosa. Your 6k will empty quickly

But you will need to work on technique.

Start with John Holden's Easy cast or the other variations thereof ie Brighton cast.

Slow down. Really slow down

 

[PAKings]

Thank you everyone for the input.  Would the choke point of 62 inches (58mm spool diameter x 27) be okay from tip of the spool shaft?  Angler resource GPS said it should be 50 inches but that seems too close.

 

I am aware that Fireline is not a good distance casting line and open to suggestions.  My target species are in the 2-3 lbs range but occasionally I have to battle a 40plus inch bull reds.

[PAKings]

Thank you ZAFisher.  I will build according to your layout.

[ZAFisher]

On a rod like this 27x is meaningless to me; looking at it now I see 27x for a 75mm spool is right where the KW10M is.

Didn't even cross my mind to use 27x.

My base line for 3 piece heavers like this (or up to say 15' like we use here in SA) 6-7 running guides on the tip section; reduction train on the middle section. Done.

If anything your reel is too small for distance work on that rod; it will hamper you as you develop skills and go past the 150m mark

[EBHarvey]

On 8/28/2022 at 10:47 PM, PAKings said:

Saragossa 6000 and fireline 8lbs braid. 

 

You're running 8# fireline on a 6k reel?  Combine those big coils coming off that thing with a small collector then the huge space between that collector and the choke guide and your line flow probably looks like a trainwreck. I bet you could drop the reel size down significantly, be throwing much, much smaller coils, and still have more than ample line capacity.

 

I realize there's a tradeoff between coil size and the speed at which a reel empties and exposes more of the spool lip, creating more friction, but I don't think you're balancing those two issues optimally.  At very least, once you clean up the guide train, try it with a smaller reel, see how the two compare.

[PAKings]

My line flow does looked like a trainwreck, when I test with 30lbs line that I can see.  I tested with stradic 5k reel in the past, and I did not feel that it could take the pounding from casting and reeling 5 to 6 oz sinkers.  I will try it on the Gosa 5k spool and see. Just have to wait a couple of weeks for some of the guides to come in to clean up the guide train.

[dcast]

What ZA...said...but taking it a bit further....I've built Century's, CTS, ZZiplex's, mostly heaver spinners with RV25 guide never closer than 45" from end of reel stem..some 48"....this has consistently achieved best distance for me, all with a modified Hatteras cast.

[ZAFisher]

Don't you dare drop a reel size on that rod, if anything, step up to an 8000 or 10000 Saragosa

Shimano's AR-C lip makes for much smaller coils than other reels; it's not marketing hype, it works.

An RV25 as a collector/stripper guide is not small at all.

8lb Fireline equates to PE2. I have one of my Ultegra 5500 spools and one of my Ultegra 14000 spools filled with PE2 braid for when I really need distance (other spools are filled with PE3 and PE5 respectively)

For the 5500k the layout shown would be just fine, replacing the RV25 for an RV20 I'd push it to 1100mm from the stem.

Tape up and go cast.

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by ZAFisher

[EBHarvey]

11 mins ago, ZAFisher said:

Don't you dare drop a reel size on that rod, if anything, step up to an 8000 or 10000 Saragosa

Shimano's AR-C lip makes for much smaller coils than other reels; it's not marketing hype, it works

 

You're the expert, so I'll defer to you all day long on this stuff.  But I have to ask, what is the reasoning behind using a reel that's so massive?  I'm doing the math on it and that 10k saragosa should hold over 1,200yds of 8lb fireline.  It also weighs a pound and a half....

 

Is the slow rate at which the spool empties and the amount of spool lip it exposes really that dominant a factor that nothing else really matters by comparison?