Ukraine?

[Maine Guide]

Is the war still going on?

 

It seems to have disappeared from the news for the most part. 
 

It seems to have disappeared from our daily conversation here as well. 
 

Why?

[eryv]

The consensus is that Russia is winning. They do not want us to know what happened and will happen with US money and weapon. Importantly, Russia' sanctions result in decreasing dollar/euro share of global reserves with direct consequences on the current situation with US economy.

[Nessmuk]

The consensus is "let them die."

[ihocky2]

Gun control is the flavor of the month. We can't let the sheep remember that we are sending the same guns to the Ukraine that they want to ban here. "Do you think your guns are a match for the military, never mind that they are good enough against the Russian military".

[jkrock]

We are pivoting to climate change

[BrianBM]

4 mins ago, ihocky2 said:

Gun control is the flavor of the month. We can't let the sheep remember that we are sending the same guns to the Ukraine that they want to ban here. "Do you think your guns are a match for the military, never mind that they are good enough against the Russian military".

Inane.  AR-type rifles are not the weapons for which Ukraine is desperate. GMLRS, 155 mm. howitzers, UAVs for spotting artillery fire and scouting, these things are not a part of the 2A argument here.

 

Ukraine is losing. It's slow, but they're losing. Russia has changed goals and seems right now bent on completing the conquest of Ukraine's coast. Doing so will permit the economic suffocation of the Ukrainian economy, and serve as a forward platform for future assaults, when the Russian Army has recovered its' wind.

 

Ukraine knows it. The Zelensky government complains of aid that's too little, too late. I suspect that Zelensky's preparing a claim for domestic audience consumption, that we had to surrender our coast because the West wouldn't help us enough. Within the past day or two, the Ukrainian defense minister listed what they need, and it's staggering, starting with 3,000 armored vehicles. 3,000? I'm not sure that NATO Europe could find 3,000 pieces, even if they totally denuded themselves, down to camo underwear and helmet covers. There isn't time to train people in every system from every country, and what a quartermaster's nightmare that would be if they did.

 

Here in the USA, support for Ukraine is broad but it is shallow, an inch deep. Someone pulled a claim out of their ass that for $40 billion we could harden every school. I hope Zelensky understands that the Democrats will be crushed in this November, and that even if the next President is not Donald Trump, it'll be a MAGA - minded Republican whose sympathies will be isolationist.

 

 

[ihocky2]

1 min ago, BrianBM said:

Inane.  AR-type rifles are not the weapons for which Ukraine is desperate. GMLRS, 155 mm. howitzers, UAVs for spotting artillery fire and scouting, these things are not a part of the 2A argument here.

 

Ukraine is losing. It's slow, but they're losing. Russia has changed goals and seems right now bent on completing the conquest of Ukraine's coast. Doing so will permit the economic suffocation of the Ukrainian economy, and serve as a forward platform for future assaults, when the Russian Army has recovered its' wind.

 

Ukraine knows it. The Zelensky government complains of aid that's too little, too late. I suspect that Zelensky's preparing a claim for domestic audience consumption, that we had to surrender our coast because the West wouldn't help us enough. Within the past day or two, the Ukrainian defense minister listed what they need, and it's staggering, starting with 3,000 armored vehicles. 3,000? I'm not sure that NATO Europe could find 3,000 pieces, even if they totally denuded themselves, down to camo underwear and helmet covers. There isn't time to train people in every system from every country, and what a quartermaster's nightmare that would be if they did.

 

Here in the USA, support for Ukraine is broad but it is shallow, an inch deep. Someone pulled a claim out of their ass that for $40 billion we could harden every school. I hope Zelensky understands that the Democrats will be crushed in this November, and that even if the next President is not Donald Trump, it'll be a MAGA - minded Republican whose sympathies will be isolationist.

 

 

The MILITARY of the Ukraine wants those weapons. We were sending them small arms to arm the citizens to fight back. Even if we sent M4's and M16's which are full auto, there is a reason that the M16 was given 3 round burst fire. Without enough training and practice full auto is nothing but a waste of ammo. A normal citizen will be far more effective with semi-auto capability than they would full auto.

 

This is not what is being sent now (though we may still be sending some). This was the early days of the invasion.

[BrianBM]

If Ukraine has to rely just on rifles to fend off Russia ... God have pity on them.

[jkrock]

9 mins ago, BrianBM said:

Inane.  AR-type rifles are not the weapons for which Ukraine is desperate. GMLRS, 155 mm. howitzers, UAVs for spotting artillery fire and scouting, these things are not a part of the 2A argument here.

 

Ukraine is losing. It's slow, but they're losing. Russia has changed goals and seems right now bent on completing the conquest of Ukraine's coast. Doing so will permit the economic suffocation of the Ukrainian economy, and serve as a forward platform for future assaults, when the Russian Army has recovered its' wind.

 

Ukraine knows it. The Zelensky government complains of aid that's too little, too late. I suspect that Zelensky's preparing a claim for domestic audience consumption, that we had to surrender our coast because the West wouldn't help us enough. Within the past day or two, the Ukrainian defense minister listed what they need, and it's staggering, starting with 3,000 armored vehicles. 3,000? I'm not sure that NATO Europe could find 3,000 pieces, even if they totally denuded themselves, down to camo underwear and helmet covers. There isn't time to train people in every system from every country, and what a quartermaster's nightmare that would be if they did.

 

Here in the USA, support for Ukraine is broad but it is shallow, an inch deep. Someone pulled a claim out of their ass that for $40 billion we could harden every school. I hope Zelensky understands that the Democrats will be crushed in this November, and that even if the next President is not Donald Trump, it'll be a MAGA - minded Republican whose sympathies will be isolationist.

 

 

I thought Joe’s sanctions were going to destroy Russia like they destroyed us?

 

You know, higher gas prices to save democracy in Ukraine?

Edited June 14, 2022 by jkrock

[Maine Guide]

38 mins ago, BrianBM said:

Inane.  AR-type rifles are not the weapons for which Ukraine is desperate. GMLRS, 155 mm. howitzers, UAVs for spotting artillery fire and scouting, these things are not a part of the 2A argument here.

 

Ukraine is losing. It's slow, but they're losing. Russia has changed goals and seems right now bent on completing the conquest of Ukraine's coast. Doing so will permit the economic suffocation of the Ukrainian economy, and serve as a forward platform for future assaults, when the Russian Army has recovered its' wind.

 

Ukraine knows it. The Zelensky government complains of aid that's too little, too late. I suspect that Zelensky's preparing a claim for domestic audience consumption, that we had to surrender our coast because the West wouldn't help us enough. Within the past day or two, the Ukrainian defense minister listed what they need, and it's staggering, starting with 3,000 armored vehicles. 3,000? I'm not sure that NATO Europe could find 3,000 pieces, even if they totally denuded themselves, down to camo underwear and helmet covers. There isn't time to train people in every system from every country, and what a quartermaster's nightmare that would be if they did.

 

Here in the USA, support for Ukraine is broad but it is shallow, an inch deep. Someone pulled a claim out of their ass that for $40 billion we could harden every school. I hope Zelensky understands that the Democrats will be crushed in this November, and that even if the next President is not Donald Trump, it'll be a MAGA - minded Republican whose sympathies will be isolationist.

 

 

Well said. 
 

What is Europe doing for Ukraine?  I’m not up on their Aid package. 

[BrianBM]

30 mins ago, jkrock said:

I thought Joe’s sanctions were going to destroy Russia like they destroyed us?

 

You know, higher gas prices to save democracy in Ukraine?

 

 

 

 

And this illustrates that Nessmuk is correct.

 

If Putin promised to flood the market for five years with cheap petroleum if we'd stop arming Ukraine, you'd happily sign off on the deal.

[BrianBM]

1 min ago, Maine Guide said:

Well said. 
 

What is Europe doing for Ukraine?  I’m not up on their Aid package. 

Less than us, but still substantial. $20-$30 billion in total, much not yet delivered, and much of it de facto underwritten by us. We've about run out of Russian-caliber artillery and artillery ammunition to transfer from the former Eastern Block states to Ukraine. Germany is moving sluggishly, having much political inertia to overcome, but they've been decent on nonlethal stuff (medical kits, etc.) and they're providing some mobile artillery in Western 155mm chambering; they have also promised the first antiair/antimissile system bigger than shoulder-mounted stuff, the IRIS-T system; it's new, and unfortunately the production to date is limited. Older Russian tanks are arriving from all over Europe. German-made Leopard tanks are being pulled out of storage in various countries, but Ukrainian troops have zero training on them.

'

[jkrock]

26 mins ago, BrianBM said:

 

 

 

 

And this illustrates that Nessmuk is correct.

 

If Putin promised to flood the market for five years with cheap petroleum if we'd stop arming Ukraine, you'd happily sign off on the deal.

Are you saying Joe ‘s policies impacted gas prices?

 

Did he save democracy?

[BrianBM]

Maine Guide, there's an interesting piece on Ukrainian use of the HIMARS system, and GMLRS rockets, on thedrive dot com, in thewarzone subsection. The first few crews are trained, and the first launchers are en route .... more to follow.

 

Even in this desperate situation, it took three weeks, an undoubtedly truncated program, to get some basic proficiency with HIMARS. Ukraine may just not have time to train enough people in all the weapons that they'd like to have, even if they had them. If anybody here knows .... how long does it take to train a crew to operate an Abrams tank? Worse, how long to maintain it?

 

10 mins ago, jkrock said:

Are you saying Joe ‘s policies impacted gas prices?

I can't see how not. Russia is 10% of the world's production.

10 mins ago, jkrock said:

Did he save democracy?

He's trying. The issue remains in doubt, as regards Ukraine.

 

[JoeyZac]

1 hour ago, BrianBM said:

..........I hope Zelensky understands that the Democrats will be crushed in this November, and that even if the next President is not Donald Trump, it'll be a MAGA - minded Republican whose sympathies will be isolationist.

 

Had Zelensky blown the lid off Hunter-Burisma during the election like Trump asked him to, Trump would have won, and Ukraine would still be a sovereign nation.

 

His country is reaping what Zelensky has sown.