rathrbefishn

Deck railing rehab

Rate this topic

26 posts in this topic

So, my step-son needs to rehab his deck railings and fascia board.  He’s got a composite deck with railing a fascia that was painted.  He  moved into the house about 7 years ago.  At that time the wood was peeling and a few slats in the railing were missing.  The seller did some crappy repairs that we later fixed and then later that year he powerwashed, did a ton of sanding,  use some wood hardener/ patch in a few areas and gave it a fresh coat of paint.  Yeah, it’s painted, not stained, and after 7 years the rots in full force and it’s time to refurb.  So I’m looking for some advice from those with more experience than I.  Apologies in advance for the long post, but I want to give enough details to answer some questions up front.

 

1)      He’s a school teacher, wife’s a nurse, and they have 3 young kids.  They need more space, so will hoe to move when the market settles a bit, probably within 2-3 years. Translation- an inexpensive rehab that is safe is most desirable.

2)      He may look towards have some pros do this, but he’s a school teacher off for the summer, I live 10 minutes away and am pretty handy. So we may try to do this as a DIY.

3)      The 6x6 railing posts are actually in pretty goo shape.  They are lag bolted through the 2x12 fascia board and 2x10 rim joist.  There is a little of rot on top of a few- there was never a cap on these-  the rot maybe goes down ¼ or so in the middle of some.  A couple move just a little- we haven’t tried to tighten the lags.

4)      The spacing between the posts range from a little over 7 ft to around 4.5 feet.

5)      As you can see in the pics, the deck boards extend over the top of the fascia board in most cases. On the one end the fascia is up at the height of the deck surface.

6)      They want to replace it with something that is low maintenance- yes they are moving, but low maintenance will help with resale. That leaves them with vinyl/aluminum railing or maybe stainless cables.  They aren’t sure yet if their HOA will approve the cables.

 

So we ( well them, but I am trying to help) are looking for recommendations on an inexpensive was to rehab this.  It needs to be safe with a couple of young grandkids and e deck that is 4-5 plus feet off the ground.

 

Here’s a notional plan, but I’d like to get some input.

1)      Try to keep the posts but cover in one of the vinyl sleeves I see they sell.  They would need to be trimmed to cover the part that bolts to the rim joist.   I think that would require countersinking the lags- we might as well through bolt them in the spots we can easily get to-  in some cases, the stone clad posts may prevent that. Should we pull the posts before remounting

2)      Is there a good way to clad the existing fascia with AZEK or something equivalent? To keep it flush with the deck, we’d need to cut it back a bit.  The reason I am suggesting keeping the fascia board is in part because of how it is grouted in with the stone. Tearing it out seems like a big lift.

3)      How thick for the AZEK type stuff?  AT our house the contractor used ½ material .  It warps when it gets very cold- I don’t think they used enough fasteners.  I see that most of the pre-cut trim boards are ¾”.  Better to buy precut material or rip down from larger sheets?

4)      If their HOA allows it, would the cable system be easier than trying to cut 6 or 8 ft railing sections to fit into their existing post layout?

I’d welcome any thoughts and product recommendations.

 

Thanks

20220510_192118.jpg

20220510_192122.jpg

20220510_192127.jpg

20220510_192306.jpg

20220510_192309.jpg

20220510_192404.jpg

20220510_192423.jpg

20220517_193436.jpg

20220517_193449.jpg

20220517_193516.jpg

20220517_193554.jpg

20220517_193718.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lots going on there..... my first take is that the next owner will be doing a total new deck, just based on the first generation of decking I see there. So keep the posts and "fascia". Just a heavy sanding and paint. You could cover the posts with 1x PVC, but not necessary and would add to cost. Forget wire, just on cost alone.

Figure out how many balusters you would need for each section. Hardwood, like mahogany. We sprayed all materials before assembling. 1/2" lattice same width as balusters, preferably a hardwood, to build the "ladders" that will go between your posts. We also used mahogany 2x4s for shoe and top rails. You should also price out the 6' and 8' composite rail kits when you are pricing the wood... It would save a lot on the prep time. This was a big project due to the union jack pattern we had to recreate. Remove and install one section at a time. I will add a few pics.

Prep the whole deck though. Begin with washdown of either Mold Armor or pump bottle mixture with Jomax, bleach and water. Then either hose or pressure wash. 

61272113190__E1F9C7F0-2441-4C35-8EF8-6A02283D5518.JPG

61246210057__81A8D4E2-0451-4181-8AC7-555101DEC30D.JPG

61272114314__A74777F2-8066-4E64-A381-B190A785A755.JPG

IMG_4191.JPG

IMG_4227.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm with Ross ^^ on this, with an eye to the future move. Next guy is gonna rebuild, so a small amount of money and time would pay off better. Clean it all,  sand and paint the fascia. 

On the posts,... You could pull and countersink the lags. I would check the blocking and if possible run new ledgerloks in other spots. Remove the old lags, and if it's good, it's good. If not use a hole saw sized to fit over the lag washer and drill that hole in a piece of 1 x 4 or 6". Then ya need to eyeball that over the old lag hole, screw the 1 x to the post, and drill the countersink. Forstner bit works best, but a hole saw hill work. The 1 x is your guide. 

BTW, this particular lag is doing nothing...

20220517_193436.jpg.f922f2bd2a50090fce467ccc4ebc092f.jpg.3d596126b66b184cdfd1aa3788ae68c7.jpg

 

I would also look at buying a sheet of 1/4" pvc to wrap the posts.

Then look at vinyl/composite rails. I use ones from Homeys because they are manufactured just 30 miles from my house. $100.00 gets you an 8' ( 92") section and brackets. Use 6' sections for the rest. Then buy some 5/4" pvc and make post caps, routed, and maybe bottoms.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you choose to wrap the 6x6 posts, you will have a huge piece, just under 8x8 post. I would invest time into sanding filling and sanding again before painting.

The "fascia" is actually the doubled rim joist. I am not sure what the original plan was, but the decking usually goes on top of the joist. It appears they used the double to "control" the border of the decking in some pictures. It gives off the DIY vibe, so just verify the framing is all good before anything is invested into this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the input guys.  It's almost certainly a DIY deck. The previous owner did a lot of projects at this house-  some are done very well, some I shake my head at.  I'll need to crawl under the deck at some point. Hopefully no big surprises.

Completely repairing the wood and just repainting is off the table. Maybe for the "fascia"/ rim joist.  Just too much rot and it would be far too much work.  Cost is an issue, but we need to balance it with the time it would take.

 

Ben-  can you point me towards the Homie's railing kits you like?  $100/ segment sounds like a good deal.-  well worth it given the time it would take to repair and paint.  They sell a bunch of different kits some with similar price points.  I assume you can just cut them to length?  BTW-  great catch on the top lag doing nothing - that may be one of the looser posts- easy to fix

 

Any experience with the sleeves they sell for the posts?  That seems like less work than trying to wrap them. 

You guys may have convinced me that painting the fascia makes sense.  Will take some convincing to the Daughter-in-law.  If we were to try and wrap them-  yes more costs- how you do it?.  You've convinced me that painting the stair stringers is how we are going to do it. They are almost flush with the treads, so that's by far the easiest approach.

thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, for starts I use the Veranda Traditional style mostly. Made in Egg Harbor, NJ.

I will send you more info later on that.

Interwebz says you can buy 59", 108", and 144" x 6 x 6 vinyl sleeves. Good luck finding any of them. 

Ya might can find some of them snap together ones. I hate them. They suck. Lol, but that's just me. 

If ya buy the full sleeve, you will have to cut it to length, then slide it over the post. 

Mark the sleeve, and then notch out that part of the sleeve so it sits on top of the deck and still goes down around the post.  You will need one 9'er ( 108" ) for each two posts. 

Sucks, but that's you're situation.  And why I recommended just using 1/4" sheet of pvc to wrap the posts. I've done too many to count in 1/4", 3/8", 3/4"  etc. Wrapped my way and never had, seen, or heard of an issue.

You will still have to "notch boards, but it's alot easier when it isn't the whole post. Those cuts are not gonna be dead, plumb, straight. I use a jigsaw often, to hide the flaws of those who came before me.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/31/2022 at 8:59 PM, Ben Lippen said:

Okay, for starts I use the Veranda Traditional style mostly. Made in Egg Harbor, NJ.

I will send you more info later on that.

Interwebz says you can buy 59", 108", and 144" x 6 x 6 vinyl sleeves. Good luck finding any of them. 

Ya might can find some of them snap together ones. I hate them. They suck. Lol, but that's just me. 

If ya buy the full sleeve, you will have to cut it to length, then slide it over the post. 

Mark the sleeve, and then notch out that part of the sleeve so it sits on top of the deck and still goes down around the post.  You will need one 9'er ( 108" ) for each two posts. 

Sucks, but that's you're situation.  And why I recommended just using 1/4" sheet of pvc to wrap the posts. I've done too many to count in 1/4", 3/8", 3/4"  etc. Wrapped my way and never had, seen, or heard of an issue.

You will still have to "notch boards, but it's alot easier when it isn't the whole post. Those cuts are not gonna be dead, plumb, straight. I use a jigsaw often, to hide the flaws of those who came before me.

 

 

 

Thanks for the info.  I was hoping you were going to say the Veranda.railing.  It's far more economical than many, and I wasn't  sure if i could believe the on-line reviews.  I assume i can just cut it to custom length.

 

Any trick on using the 1/4" PVC.  I never looked at it closely.  Many years ago, a contractor used I think 3/8 to wrap my deck and we've had issues with it flexing in the winter .  Of course they using nails and at the time i didn't know any better. Yeah, really.  So I've gone back and screwed most of it.  What's the trick to keep it from bowing?  Glue it down before screwing it?  How close to put in the screws?  I am assuming butt joints will be OK? Do we need to seal the edges with PVC glue of some sort?  I've used glue on mitered joints around a garage door trim I did a few years ago, but  don't know if it is needed.  It looks like wrapping is also a heck of a lot cheaper than the sleeves.  

Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bumping to see if anyone has tips on how to best wrap wood with vinyl.  Glue and screw?  Screws how close?  those kind of tips would be welcomed.

thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cortex hidden screw/fasteners. Pricy but clean. Bit seats screw to depth and plug covers the hole. Assuming post height approximately 36+", one screw each an inch or two off top and bottom, and two more spaced evenly between. Slide over post, shim to plumb and one or two screws into the post. 1x4 and 1x6 will give you 1/2" of wiggle room to slide down existing 4x4, which may have some twist over its length. So while you can rip the 1x6 down to 5", I would caution you on making it too tight...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 mins ago, nightfighter said:

Cortex hidden screw/fasteners. Pricy but clean. Bit seats screw to depth and plug covers the hole. Assuming post height approximately 36+", one screw each an inch or two off top and bottom, and two more spaced evenly between. Slide over post, shim to plumb and one or two screws into the post. 1x4 and 1x6 will give you 1/2" of wiggle room to slide down existing 4x4, which may have some twist over its length. So while you can rip the 1x6 down to 5", I would caution you on making it too tight...

Thanks.  This sounds like for the pre-made sleeves.  What about on flat surfaces?  Trying to avoid that seasonal flexing

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited) · Report post

It's amazing how much the synthetic material swells and shrinks. In winter I look at seams in my decking and trim and shake my head at how wide they are, but those same seams on a hot summer day are tight. Be sure to follow manufacturer's recommendations for spacing based on temperatures at install. I used Timbertech on my deck, and the wrap/facia is more "hung" than it is "attached" to the wood. Use the recommended fastener system or it will buckle and look lousy. I am a DIY guy, but I have never heard of gluing any of the facia/sleeves, etc. It's got to be able to flex. 

 

Here's my deck which I re-did a few years ago. Pic from last night to go into the online listing this week. I used Timbertech material all around. I used Radiance Rail from TT, and I didn't love the way it installed, but it all still looks good after a good powerwashing last weekend. Decking is looking nearly new. And those CoreTex fasteners are the bomb! 

IMG_5578.jpg.b96ff94a1d4fd3b941a866acb3d522d1.jpg

 

Good luck with your project. Guys here on SOL are top notch, follow their lead! :th:

Edited by Gilbey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Gilbey said:

It's amazing how much the synthetic material swells and shrinks. In winter I look at seams in my decking and trim and shake my head at how wide they are, but those same seams on a hot summer day are tight. Be sure to follow manufacturer's recommendations for spacing based on temperatures at install. I used Timbertech on my deck, and the wrap/facia is more "hung" than it is "attached" to the wood. Use the recommended fastener system or it will buckle and look lousy. I am a DIY guy, but I have never heard of gluing any of the facia/sleeves, etc. It's got to be able to flex. 

 

Here's my deck which I re-did a few years ago. Pic from last night to go into the online listing this week. I used Timbertech material all around. I used Radiance Rail from TT, and I didn't love the way it installed, but it all still looks good after a good powerwashing last weekend. Decking is looking nearly new. And those CoreTex fasteners are the bomb! 

IMG_5578.jpg.b96ff94a1d4fd3b941a866acb3d522d1.jpg

 

Good luck with your project. Guys here on SOL are top notch, follow their lead! :th:

Looks good from the picts. I just quoted a deck for my customer in Hollis NH. Came out to 79,500. My materials alone were around 37k and change. It's about 9ft off the ground, 26ft long by 14 deep. Then another section that is 12ft wide at the house, 4 ft wide at the front by about 12ft deep, set of stairs down to a landing then a change in direction for another set of stairs down to the concrete patio. The 26by 14 section has a roof going over also. A large project for a guy like me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 mins ago, Gilbey said:

Sheesh!?!?! That’s some deck!!!! Would love to see pics when done. 

yeah, she's been a good customer for me. Never haggles on my price at all and always pays me when I ask for a check. Done about a 100k worth of work for her so far and she's been very pleased. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, gray gables said:

Looks good from the picts. I just quoted a deck for my customer in Hollis NH. Came out to 79,500. My materials alone were around 37k and change. It's about 9ft off the ground, 26ft long by 14 deep. Then another section that is 12ft wide at the house, 4 ft wide at the front by about 12ft deep, set of stairs down to a landing then a change in direction for another set of stairs down to the concrete patio. The 26by 14 section has a roof going over also. A large project for a guy like me. 

Nice project, but nine feet up... a lot of lifting and a lot of up down up down. not sure what an optimal height off ground is when framing as they all have their drawbacks. I particularly hate the ones that are just an inch or two higher than my inseam.... I think my deck days are over due to not really being able to effectively kneel (or get up easily) with knee replacement)

But the major point here for non pros is the materials cost... ALL of our prices are up, big. And then there are the supply chain stories. Or the stocking of 304 stainless fasteners instead of 316, yet charging the same price...  And lastly, the time it takes to put these estimates together when we have to verify all the costs since some quotes are only good for 36 hours...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to register here in order to participate.

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.