dmac95

This whole state is a joke

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2 hours ago, CWitek said:

The difference is that the examples you give are all undeveloped areas.  Law enforcement and rescue are imperatives that cross all boundaries—private property, public land, the high seas.  But recreation on developed land, which requires investment to enjoy, is a different issue.  Conceptually, there is little difference between a municipal landowner limiting use to its taxpayer/residents and a private landowner limiting use to family/customers.  In both cases, a landowner is exercising its property rights to limit access to land it owns in fee simple.

 

 

Great answer.  It grates on me that owners of municipal land aren't held to a higher standard of behavior when the land is a gateway to use the undeveloped area.  Anecdotally in this thread, Florida just makes it work.  There's been no counterpoint from other travelers saying, "Oh yeah, but try to get a parking spot." or "Oh yeah, but the ramps are torn to ****."  The municipalities' argument is weak.  

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The key would be for all municipalities to start doing the right thing at the same time.  There would have to be some kind of new law.  A new law that wrangles government instead of the usual feelgood new law that goes after people.

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On 5/28/2022 at 3:35 PM, RL Bucktails said:

The best days of LI are way gone

The whole NE for that matter

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3 hours ago, Ellar said:

Great answer.  It grates on me that owners of municipal land aren't held to a higher standard of behavior when the land is a gateway to use the undeveloped area.  Anecdotally in this thread, Florida just makes it work.  There's been no counterpoint from other travelers saying, "Oh yeah, but try to get a parking spot." or "Oh yeah, but the ramps are torn to ****."  The municipalities' argument is weak.  

Florida makes it work because there is a finaicial incentive, in the form of tourism, to make it work.  That is absent on Long Island, as relatively few people are willing to go through the hassle of tralering their boats through New York City to come out here, and folks who already live here, and are doing a day trip, aren't going to spend enough money to justify making it work.

 

 

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34 mins ago, CWitek said:

Florida makes it work because there is a finaicial incentive, in the form of tourism, to make it work.  That is absent on Long Island, as relatively few people are willing to go through the hassle of tralering their boats through New York City to come out here, and folks who already live here, and are doing a day trip, aren't going to spend enough money to justify making it work.

 

 

Florida makes it work in respect to the concerns raised earlier in the thread.  Tourism doesn't make the parking not fill up and the ramps not get put out of commission by overuse.  The municipal ramps are about access to the undeveloped area.

Edited by Ellar

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2 hours ago, Ellar said:

Florida makes it work in respect to the concerns raised earlier in the thread.  Tourism doesn't make the parking not fill up and the ramps not get put out of commission by overuse.  The municipal ramps are about access to the undeveloped area.

Tourism does inspire the state/county/municipality to obtain enough land to build adequate lots, and to maintain them in a way that it attractive to visitors.  

 

It's hard to imagine why a government would care about non-resident access to underveloped areas, and spend the money to provide it, if it wasn't to benefit the local economy.

 

I'm also curious about who owns the Florida ramps.  How many are in national parks (e.g., Everglades), and so are federally funded.  How many are state ramps?  How many are private ramps, where a marina/gas dock/bait station is more than willing to let you launch your boat for a few bucks?  And, of course, which are public, minicipal ramps.  Is the ownership difference skewed strongly toward municipalities, as it is on Long Island, or is it skewed toward other ownership?

 

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11 mins ago, CWitek said:

Tourism does inspire the state/county/municipality to obtain enough land to build adequate lots, and to maintain them in a way that it attractive to visitors.  

 

It's hard to imagine why a government would care about non-resident access to underveloped areas, and spend the money to provide it, if it wasn't to benefit the local economy.

 

I'm also curious about who owns the Florida ramps.  How many are in national parks (e.g., Everglades), and so are federally funded.  How many are state ramps?  How many are private ramps, where a marina/gas dock/bait station is more than willing to let you launch your boat for a few bucks?  And, of course, which are public, minicipal ramps.  Is the ownership difference skewed strongly toward municipalities, as it is on Long Island, or is it skewed toward other ownership?

 

Good question.

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2 hours ago, Ellar said:

Florida makes it work in respect to the concerns raised earlier in the thread.  Tourism doesn't make the parking not fill up and the ramps not get put out of commission by overuse.  The municipal ramps are about access to the undeveloped area.

There is NO excuse vs FL vs NY vs NJ vs CA vs any other state except maybe Hawaii or Alaska.

 

Our states are all the same in the end, but yet people like to give excuses as to what makes 'us' special, especially 'LI'. We have to quit the fame of thinking we are any different than some random island off NC. With the exception of schools, everything is crumbling due to political mess. Residents have their brains inside out thinking someone living in farmingdale in Nassau is different from someone living in farmingdale in Suffolk. Brains INSIDE out. Someone living in BK should have the ability to use ramps in Southampton (which they sell permits for - good). And regarding the matter, 'Town of X' - no, you live in a city, there is no mention of 'Town of X' on your mailing address or when buying off Amazon, so take that town of X and send it right down the drain - by the way it works the same for HOA's in CA - a huge mess. Anything more granular than that is either a street or a zip code. No hamlet/village crap. I do live in a 'village' for the matter, and guess what, I don't use any services here nor do I think I deserve or pay for them. I live in 'city', not some village. The only thing we pay for in addition is village police, but no, dont go to another state and say "I live in town of smithtown", or "the xyz association". You live in northport, NY, thats where, not no Town of Sh*t.

Edited by dmac95

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On 6/2/2022 at 8:47 AM, CWitek said:

To play devil's advocate on this issue, why should a local government allow non-residents to use local ramps?

 

The ramps were built with local taxes.  They are maintained with local taxes.  Why should local taxpayers, who might often have to purchase some sort of use perrmit to the municipal government tbefore ujsing the ramp, have to compete for parking and ramp space with non-residents who don't make the same contribution to the ramps' creation and upkeep?

 

There are five state ramps on Long Island.  There are a number of private facilities who will allow people to launch their boats for a dailyt fee.  And there are local governmental entities that will sell non-residents a launch permit for a fee large enough to offset the inconvenience to local taxpayers.   Combined with whatever launch facilities exist in a boatowner's place of residence, that offers a substantial number of options for those who trailer.

 

Yes, it's different in Florida.  But Florida has a tourist-driven economy, and is a big enough state that such economy includes both interstate and intrastate tourism, and much of that tourism is fishing and/or boating related.  That's not the case on Long Island, where fishing-related tourism is much more modest, and much of the tourism is not fishing/boating related.  It may make economic sense for Florida municipalities to make launch ramps available in order to support lodql b usiness; on Long Island, where you're catering primarily to day-trippers who bring their lunch in a cooler and are as likely as not to fuel up at their local gas statiuon, the economic benefits of a local launch ramp are not as great.

 

Put it all together and, from the viewpoint of a local municipality and local taxpayers, resident-only ramps have little downside.

 

 

Well said Charlie. 

 

Florida also has a saltwater fishing license who's funds are used to maintain all that goes into recreational boating and fishing. Signage, ramps, wash downs, trash pails, etc. Have you seen the discourse around here when the SW L word comes up in conversation? I get we pay a lot of taxes and a portion of our gas, tackle, etc. is supposed to go to this but it is what it is. Keeping in mind LI has over 7.5 million residents, I'm glad things are somewhat restrictive seeing what the general public does to open spaces around here and how they may obey or disobey local restrictions or law. 

Edited by brushfly

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the state and downstate are two different worlds.       i moved here from CNY after university and the only reason i stay is because of the ocean.

public land is so much more bountiful on long island than it seems. upstate every patch of woods is posted no-trespass and in other states the homeowners seem to own the low tide mark.

got a job offer in 2020 for 3x my salary for a job in westchester and i could not imagine myself paying the taxes to be that far away from the ocean or sea.

 

pros outweight the cons

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I undrrstand these resident only permits. Sometimes it sucks but people take advantage. I love to go crabbing out east. 10 years ago i could fill my bucket in an hour. Then the white bucket brigade from out of town started showing up. The town started posting the rules to try to limit the take. Made no difference. More started coming. Beach parking was only enforced during daylight so people without permits would start showing up around 6 to watch the sunset. The brigade figured this out and started showing up at night, filling garbage bags full of crab. So now enforcement is 24 hrs. $100 fine didn't discourage them. Constables would do night raids and issue lots of summons but that didnt do much. Last year i spent 2 hours to get 3 crabs. I dumped em back. This year they made all the areas part of the plover nesting so i guess its either another summons they can tack on or it gives the crabs a chance to recover. Sucks but people dont know when to stop.

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1 hour ago, Bergallmaster said:

I undrrstand these resident only permits. Sometimes it sucks but people take advantage. I love to go crabbing out east. 10 years ago i could fill my bucket in an hour. Then the white bucket brigade from out of town started showing up. The town started posting the rules to try to limit the take. Made no difference. More started coming. Beach parking was only enforced during daylight so people without permits would start showing up around 6 to watch the sunset. The brigade figured this out and started showing up at night, filling garbage bags full of crab. So now enforcement is 24 hrs. $100 fine didn't discourage them. Constables would do night raids and issue lots of summons but that didnt do much. Last year i spent 2 hours to get 3 crabs. I dumped em back. This year they made all the areas part of the plover nesting so i guess its either another summons they can tack on or it gives the crabs a chance to recover. Sucks but people dont know when to stop.

A village pier near me began restricting nonresident crabbers because, along with taking every single crab that they caught, regardless of size or eggs, they piled any seaweed, eelgrass, etc. that came up with their traps on the pier, leaving rotting, stinking heaps of vegetation that the village had to remove.  

 

After all, it wasn't their tax money that paid for the cleanup.

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