dmac95

This whole state is a joke

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On 5/28/2022 at 5:59 PM, Fuzzytrout said:

nice avatar.

 

i might know the guy who paints those fish ;)

 

Cape Cod aint much better then LI for boat ramps.  we might have some more options to launch, but unless you launch at 530 am just go home. limited parking lots will be full by 6 am.

 

i trailered my new skiff down to florida in april.  I was blow away by the launch options in the area.  spoiled me. 

 

 

I went to cc a few times, what a beautiful place. Boat ramps looked great as well.

 

seems politicians in our areas like to ruin things. 

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To be fair boating is wayyyy bigger down in FL than it is up here. 

 

Mattituck is nice but the fishing out of there has been trash lately. Hopefully that will change this year with the run of large bass in the western sound. Good luck catching a keeper fluke today. Used to catch 5-8lbers 100yards from the inlet 6-7 years ago. 

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To play devil's advocate on this issue, why should a local government allow non-residents to use local ramps?

 

The ramps were built with local taxes.  They are maintained with local taxes.  Why should local taxpayers, who might often have to purchase some sort of use perrmit to the municipal government tbefore ujsing the ramp, have to compete for parking and ramp space with non-residents who don't make the same contribution to the ramps' creation and upkeep?

 

There are five state ramps on Long Island.  There are a number of private facilities who will allow people to launch their boats for a dailyt fee.  And there are local governmental entities that will sell non-residents a launch permit for a fee large enough to offset the inconvenience to local taxpayers.   Combined with whatever launch facilities exist in a boatowner's place of residence, that offers a substantial number of options for those who trailer.

 

Yes, it's different in Florida.  But Florida has a tourist-driven economy, and is a big enough state that such economy includes both interstate and intrastate tourism, and much of that tourism is fishing and/or boating related.  That's not the case on Long Island, where fishing-related tourism is much more modest, and much of the tourism is not fishing/boating related.  It may make economic sense for Florida municipalities to make launch ramps available in order to support lodql b usiness; on Long Island, where you're catering primarily to day-trippers who bring their lunch in a cooler and are as likely as not to fuel up at their local gas statiuon, the economic benefits of a local launch ramp are not as great.

 

Put it all together and, from the viewpoint of a local municipality and local taxpayers, resident-only ramps have little downside.

 

 

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Florida also has year round boat season and much less bureaucratic red tape.... never in my life have i seen the levels of redundant government you see down in long island.          State, County, Town, Village..... heck even HOA to the hierarchy.

 

 

coming from 'cuse your county would have no impact on your life... versus the mangano, bellone, bull**** we see on the news and radio daily.

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1 hour ago, CWitek said:

 

The ramps were built with local taxes. 

 

Are "outside taxes" used at all?" I have read about federal taxes used in Florida.

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11 mins ago, rollincoal said:

Are "outside taxes" used at all?" I have read about federal taxes used in Florida.

The state gets federal excise taxes from sales of fishing tackle, which the DEC uses, in part, to build its ramps, but those funds are not directly available to municipalities; they're paid only to the state.  Could the state share some portion of those funds to help a town develop a ramp?  I honestly don't know whether the program would permit that, although it's possible.  Would the DEC give away cash that it can use for its own projects?  Given that it's always struggling for funding?  Probably not.

 

I'm not going to say that no municipality ever got some sort of outside funding, because it's not impossible that someone, somewhere took advantage of a state or federal infrastructure or recreational funding bill, or maybe funding from a "member item" here in New Yoirk (the now-decaying Sportfishing Education Center at Cedar Beach is an example of that sort of pork), to build a ramp, but I'm not aware of any such funding occurring.  Launch ramps, like golf courses, swimming pools, town marinas, etc., are generally fuinded and maintained through local taxes and user fees; any exceptions to that rule, if they exist, are rare.

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30 mins ago, GarbageFish said:

Florida also has year round boat season and much less bureaucratic red tape.... never in my life have i seen the levels of redundant government you see down in long island.          State, County, Town, Village..... heck even HOA to the hierarchy.

 

 

coming from 'cuse your county would have no impact on your life... versus the mangano, bellone, bull**** we see on the news and radio daily.

New York is bad.

 

I grew up in Connecticut, where the basic unit of government was the town.  I never recall incorporated villages, and the counties were virtually powerless--about the only thing the counties were used for was the sheriff's department. 

 

It was a flatter goverment structure, but the towns, if anything, were even more protective of their public amenities.  Recreational facilities were residents-only; in the town I grew up in, it took a decision from the state's highest court to permit non-residents from accessing the public waterfront, and even though that is currently allowed, prohibitive non-resident parking fees still render it impractical for many.

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By that logic, a car registered in Smithtown cannot drive in jericho because people who live in jericho pay for the roads.  - and guess what, screw local vs local. We are all together on this deserted island, so lets not even pretend towns exist. If each of us pays 12k in taxes for taxes that goes to 'ramps', 'roads', 'infrastructure', etc, then how come no tax states get infinitely better infrastructure?

 

Have you seen Florida? Every time we go there, there's a new highway being built. We cant even fix pot holes here, let alone build a new road, let alone build a new LANE. 

 

 

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10 hours ago, CWitek said:

To play devil's advocate on this issue, why should a local government allow non-residents to use local ramps?

 

The ramps were built with local taxes.  They are maintained with local taxes.  Why should local taxpayers, who might often have to purchase some sort of use perrmit to the municipal government tbefore ujsing the ramp, have to compete for parking and ramp space with non-residents who don't make the same contribution to the ramps' creation and upkeep?

 

There are five state ramps on Long Island.  There are a number of private facilities who will allow people to launch their boats for a dailyt fee.  And there are local governmental entities that will sell non-residents a launch permit for a fee large enough to offset the inconvenience to local taxpayers.   Combined with whatever launch facilities exist in a boatowner's place of residence, that offers a substantial number of options for those who trailer.

 

Yes, it's different in Florida.  But Florida has a tourist-driven economy, and is a big enough state that such economy includes both interstate and intrastate tourism, and much of that tourism is fishing and/or boating related.  That's not the case on Long Island, where fishing-related tourism is much more modest, and much of the tourism is not fishing/boating related.  It may make economic sense for Florida municipalities to make launch ramps available in order to support lodql b usiness; on Long Island, where you're catering primarily to day-trippers who bring their lunch in a cooler and are as likely as not to fuel up at their local gas statiuon, the economic benefits of a local launch ramp are not as great.

 

Put it all together and, from the viewpoint of a local municipality and local taxpayers, resident-only ramps have little downside.

 

 

Same reason any American can walk the beach below the mean tide line even though local money goes into law enforcement and rescue down there.

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14 mins ago, Ellar said:

Same reason any American can walk the beach below the mean tide line even though local money goes into law enforcement and rescue down there.

Problem is, the parking lot, as well as most of the ramp, is ABOVE the high tide line.  

 

So long as the non-residents don't use the parking lot, or use any part of the ramp that's above the high tide line, the towns and the residents probably wouldn't object.

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, CWitek said:

Problem is, the parking lot, as well as most of the ramp, is ABOVE the high tide line.  

 

So long as the non-residents don't use the parking lot, or use any part of the ramp that's above the high tide line, the towns and the residents probably wouldn't object. 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm just providing that as another example where local money goes into something and everybody's free to use it.  I didn't mean the mean high tide line makes it right.  Another example would be a boater from New Jersey is free to sail into the back bays and potentially get into trouble.  A county helicopter and a county marine bureau boat will likely respond to pull their fat outta the fire. The boat from Jersey adds to congestion on the waterway.  But freedom.  As it should be.

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14 hours ago, CWitek said:

To play devil's advocate on this issue, why should a local government allow non-residents to use local ramps?

I was very surprised to see my town abandon what had always been “residents only” to completely open the floodgates and make all parking at town beaches first come first served by a meter.  Theoretically the local beach parking can be made up entirely of non residents so long as they feed meters.

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7 hours ago, Ellar said:

I'm just providing that as another example where local money goes into something and everybody's free to use it.  I didn't mean the mean high tide line makes it right.  Another example would be a boater from New Jersey is free to sail into the back bays and potentially get into trouble.  A county helicopter and a county marine bureau boat will likely respond to pull their fat outta the fire. The boat from Jersey adds to congestion on the waterway.  But freedom.  As it should be.

The difference is that the examples you give are all undeveloped areas.  Law enforcement and rescue are imperatives that cross all boundaries—private property, public land, the high seas.  But recreation on developed land, which requires investment to enjoy, is a different issue.  Conceptually, there is little difference between a municipal landowner limiting use to its taxpayer/residents and a private landowner limiting use to family/customers.  In both cases, a landowner is exercising its property rights to limit access to land it owns in fee simple.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Ellar said:

I'm just providing that as another example where local money goes into something and everybody's free to use it.  I didn't mean the mean high tide line makes it right.  Another example would be a boater from New Jersey is free to sail into the back bays and potentially get into trouble.  A county helicopter and a county marine bureau boat will likely respond to pull their fat outta the fire. The boat from Jersey adds to congestion on the waterway.  But freedom.  As it should be.

Both the guys in NJ and NY are in the same country. 
 
If there are congestion issues then the tax dollars may transfer appropriately.

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12 hours ago, Ellar said:

Same reason any American can walk the beach below the mean tide line even though local money goes into law enforcement and rescue down there.

Local money is state and county. Anything lower than that is basically HOA

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