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New Vehicle Shopping Results

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I am posting this because the results were surprising and unexpected. First off I'm in Nova Scotia, Canada. I had been pricing vehicles since last year and priced the identical vehicle at five dealers in the US and Canada. The US dealers were extremely close geographically to the plant in which the vehicle was being manufactured so I was expecting a lower price than shopping local to me. The two highest prices were the two dealers closest to the manufacturing facility. The cheapest price was from a dealer within walking distance to my house in Canada. I managed 6.5% off sticker plus ceramic coating and rustproofing at no charge. Taking possession tomorrow and dealer played NO games at final payment. 

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Posted (edited)

A cautionary tale - I lost my 2004 4th Generation 4Runner to severe Frame rot because I trusted the Rustproofing that the dealer did for $1000.00.  To quote another Toyota Dealer in the same county _ "Those SOB's did a ghost spray" to which I asked what that is - it is a spraying of the rustproofing where the customer can see it - the non-sprayed areas can only be seen if the vehicle is up on a lift - notably, this dealer has a policy, unlike the other dealer in Ocean County, and the dealer in Monmouth County, of tell the customer that for safety/insurance purposes, customers are absolutely prohibited in the shop.  Funny thing is, when they needed to show me how bad the frame rot was, it was no problem for tham to bring me into the shop and offer me $1000.00 trade in on my 81K miles truck, towards a new truck on the spot - the new truck listing for $46,000.00 without rustproofing, of course.  Guess what I told them to kiss.

 

Notably, I had just picked up the truck two days earlier, having needed new front axels because the boots were dry rotted - I ended up back in the dealer because the tranny skid plate buckled under the truck just as I drove off the sand onto the tarmac - ends up the service guy broke two of the four skid plate bolts, so he reinstalled it with the remaining two bolts, one of which only went in 1.5 turns, because the threads in the cross member were rotted.  Apparently, the "certified" moron never heard of a drill and tap.  When the skid plate buckled the truck ground to a halt, as if a jack had been placed under it.  Imagine if it had happened at 50 miles an hour while I was driving to the beach to fish.

 

Fun Times.

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Edited by FlatWing

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14 mins ago, FlatWing said:

A cautionary tale - I lost my 2004 4th Generation 4Runner to severe Frame rot because I trusted the Rustproofing that the dealer did for $1000.00.  To quote another Toyota Dealer in the same county _ "Those SOB's did a ghost spray" to which I asked what that is - it is a spraying of the rustproofing where the customer can see it - the non-sprayed areas can only be seen if the vehicle is up on a lift - notably, this dealer has a policy, unlike the other dealer in Ocean County, and the dealer in Monmouth County, of tell the customer that for safety/insurance purposes, customers are absolutely prohibited in the shop.  Funny thing is, when they needed to show me how bad the frame rot was, it was no problem for tham to bring me into the shop and offer me $1000.00 trade in on my 81K miles truck, towards a new truck on the spot - the new truck listing for $46,000.00 without rustproofing, of course.  Guess what I told them to kiss.

 

Notably, I had just picked up the truck two days earlier, having needed new front axels because the boots were dry rotted - I ended up back in the dealer because the tranny skid plate buckled under the truck just as I drove off the sand onto the tarmac - ends up the service guy broke two of the four skid plate bolts, so he reinstalled it with the remaining two bolts, one of which only went in 1.5 turns, because the threads in the cross member were rotted.  Apparently, the "certified" moron never heard of a drill and tap.  When the skid plate buckled the truck ground to a halt, as if a jack had been placed under it.  Imagine if it had happened at 50 miles an hour while I was driving to the beach to fish.

 

Fun Times.

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So what is the outcome are they replacing the frame?

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The official position of Toyota Corp (I dealt directly with their California location US Headquarters) is that 4Runner frames do not rust, because they are made in Japan.  Ultimately, through USAA, I received $5000.00 trade in on a 2016 5ht Gen 4Runner - the hand made dual receiver tube Cooler Rack mount, made entirely from 6061-T6 Aluminum, not welded, but constructed with highest grade marine Stainless Steel hardware, is scrap that still resides in my garage, because after 2004, Toyota completely changed the tow hook configuration, so my rack mount frame has nothing to clamp down on ("clean" aluminum fetches $0.10 per pound, any holes downgrades it to $0.05 per pound  from the local scrap dealers). I ended up with a Curt Hitch for $177.00 from Cabela's after I cashed in my accumulated Points, and rustproofed it with Rustoleum 2-part epoxy truck bed liner, which is the same coating I applied to all of the skid plates (sand quickly ablates Ziebart's Waxol rustproofing, which is what I had applied to the entire frame, including the voids, the bottom body panels (inside) and a clear coat of the entire engine compartment.  After every 5000 miles, when I drop the engine and transmission skid plates, I touch up any exposed edges of the frame with either brush on Rustoleum Rust Reformer r the spray on version for areas I cannot reach due to their configuration (like the front body mount plates on the frame).  I apply two coats - the second coat negates the need for any other top-coat.

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5 hours ago, FlatWing said:

A cautionary tale - I lost my 2004 4th Generation 4Runner to severe Frame rot because I trusted the Rustproofing that the dealer did for $1000.00.  To quote another Toyota Dealer in the same county _ "Those SOB's did a ghost spray" to which I asked what that is - it is a spraying of the rustproofing where the customer can see it - the non-sprayed areas can only be seen if the vehicle is up on a lift - notably, this dealer has a policy, unlike the other dealer in Ocean County, and the dealer in Monmouth County, of tell the customer that for safety/insurance purposes, customers are absolutely prohibited in the shop.  Funny thing is, when they needed to show me how bad the frame rot was, it was no problem for tham to bring me into the shop and offer me $1000.00 trade in on my 81K miles truck, towards a new truck on the spot - the new truck listing for $46,000.00 without rustproofing, of course.  Guess what I told them to kiss.

 

Notably, I had just picked up the truck two days earlier, having needed new front axels because the boots were dry rotted - I ended up back in the dealer because the tranny skid plate buckled under the truck just as I drove off the sand onto the tarmac - ends up the service guy broke two of the four skid plate bolts, so he reinstalled it with the remaining two bolts, one of which only went in 1.5 turns, because the threads in the cross member were rotted.  Apparently, the "certified" moron never heard of a drill and tap.  When the skid plate buckled the truck ground to a halt, as if a jack had been placed under it.  Imagine if it had happened at 50 miles an hour while I was driving to the beach to fish.

 

Fun Times.

1005151721.jpg

1005151722.jpg

1005151722a.jpg

1005151723.jpg

1005151723a.jpg

1005151725.jpg

1204131632.jpg

The moral of this story is trust no one at the dealership. 
How many years old was the truck before the frame rusted out?

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Not only the sales teams not to believe but the warranties themselves have loopholes in many cases for the manufacturer to deny claims. Its a dirty business, not much unlike many others that have the same practices its just that they are better at hiding it than car folks.

 

You don't believe that, call a plumber, about the same fees as a dentist, maybe deserved, but I can't fix my teef, the plumbing I'll give a shot to save the coin.

 

Good for the plumber, everybody is needing a high wage to maintain their live styles, thats gonna be the next major issue, debt they can't afford when interest rates rise.

 

And todays folks don't wait on anything, they want it all and now, young married couples with kids, multiple new cars, most often 3, boats, home reno's, new furniture, appliances, out to expensive restaurants, kids on travel sports teams,  the costs have to be staggering. Is everybody making $200K+?. = Shat Show Coming Soon to your area.

 

 

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16 hours ago, z-man said:

The moral of this story is trust no one at the dealership. 
How many years old was the truck before the frame rusted out?

Absolutely - I found out who had done my 1989 Jeep Cherokee Sport when I bought it - I traded that one in after 15 years and 65,000 almost exclusively beach miles, because I could no longer clutch with my left leg - it did not have a speck of rust, having been rinsed after every beach trip.  The business that did it was Jost Rustproofing in Belmar, NJ.  That is who I took my 2016 4Runner to, having refused the offer of the new (to me) Toyota Dealer to "spray it".

The 2004 4Runner rot in the pictures is what I was allowed to see by the original dealer in Dec 2015, so that I would see that I "need(ed) a new truck"

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2 hours ago, FlatWing said:

Absolutely - I found out who had done my 1989 Jeep Cherokee Sport when I bought it - I traded that one in after 15 years and 65,000 almost exclusively beach miles, because I could no longer clutch with my left leg - it did not have a speck of rust, having been rinsed after every beach trip.  The business that did it was Jost Rustproofing in Belmar, NJ.  That is who I took my 2016 4Runner to, having refused the offer of the new (to me) Toyota Dealer to "spray it".

The 2004 4Runner rot in the pictures is what I was allowed to see by the original dealer in Dec 2015, so that I would see that I "need(ed) a new truck"

Only 11 years old. What did they do with it? Junk yard or replace the frame and resell it?

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Posted (edited)

Almost and all frames rot from the inside-out. 

 

Once that occurs, any exterior frame treatment will be compromised from hard to reach areas that haven't been treated.  In other words, rust will just spread beneath the frame rail coating.

 

Best bet is to look into an interior frame rail treatment (Eastwood, Linseed oil etc).  Then follow up with an exterior frame coating.

 

I'm a cheapo so I do 80/20 mixture of ATF and chainsaw oil in a pesticide spray bottle and squirt the mixture in all the weep holes of my frame rail.  Messy, but it keeps everything lubricated and bolts break free without any effort.

 

 

 

Edited by DEM Parking Lot

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21 hours ago, z-man said:

Only 11 years old. What did they do with it? Junk yard or replace the frame and resell it?

The dealer that I traded it in to (for $5000.00) told me he would "brand" the title, which designates the vehicle as unsafe to operate and therefore non-sellable, and he would sell it off as parts (I doubt that he did the dismantling) especially becasue the body and mechanicals were pristine - I looked for the VIN with my subscription to been verified, and the vin does not exist, so I take him at his word.

 

21 hours ago, DEM Parking Lot said:

Almost and all frames rot from the inside-out. 

 

Once that occurs, any exterior frame treatment will be compromised from hard to reach areas that haven't been treated.  In other words, rust will just spread beneath the frame rail coating.

 

Best bet is to look into an interior frame rail treatment (Eastwood, Linseed oil etc).  Then follow up with an exterior frame coating.

 

I'm a cheapo so I do 80/20 mixture of ATF and chainsaw oil in a pesticide spray bottle and squirt the mixture in all the weep holes of my frame rail.  Messy, but it keeps everything lubricated and bolts break free without any effort.

 

 

 

Agreed.  With my replacement 5th Gen 2016, I had Jost Rustproofing spray every frame void as well as the entire frame, bottom interiors of the doors and metal body panels, and clear coat the engine compartment - I delivered it to him with all underbody plastic pieces, the radiator to grill plastic cowling, and all skid plates removed, so that he had unfettered access.  The skid plates I treated myself with Rustoleum 2 part epoxy truck bed liner, which is UV resistant, has corrosion inhibitors, and remains flexible for life.  I then reinstalled the skid plates with Marine Grade Stainless Steel 8mm hex bolts and washers, coated with aluminum based Permatex anti-seize before installation.  I remove and clean the skid plates before every 5000 mile service, and touch them up as required on the underside, if the sand has ablated any corners.  Before re-intallation, I put the truck up on the lift at the Navy Base Auto-Hobby shop and correct any areas with 2 coats of Rustoleum rust neutralizer (the second coat negates the need for a topcoat).

 

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Use fluid film on dem yota frames. It works.

 

Dealers are scum. When I go into a dealership, I cut all the small talk out and warn them, I’m not you friend, I won’t be nice, I don’t expect them to be nice, I demand no games, and let’s get the sales manager a part of this convo asap as I will only talk to him/her. 

 

I really can’t wait for it to be a dealer free experience.
 

 

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I agree, it's better to tell them upfront on how you want to deal with them, But these buy online or carfax are just as bad in the long run. Your buying a used car or truck and you still have to take it to a stealer when and it will break. They all stink. I do it your way, After I dicide what I want, I give them a buying price with very little leway, If they hit it , I will buy the vehecil then and take it home.  My way is ,don't bs me and L will buy the truck asap with me not giving any bs.

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On 5/20/2022 at 9:01 AM, FlatWing said:

The dealer that I traded it in to (for $5000.00) told me he would "brand" the title, which designates the vehicle as unsafe to operate and therefore non-sellable, and he would sell it off as parts (I doubt that he did the dismantling) especially becasue the body and mechanicals were pristine - I looked for the VIN with my subscription to been verified, and the vin does not exist, so I take him at his word.

 

Agreed.  With my replacement 5th Gen 2016, I had Jost Rustproofing spray every frame void as well as the entire frame, bottom interiors of the doors and metal body panels, and clear coat the engine compartment - I delivered it to him with all underbody plastic pieces, the radiator to grill plastic cowling, and all skid plates removed, so that he had unfettered access.  The skid plates I treated myself with Rustoleum 2 part epoxy truck bed liner, which is UV resistant, has corrosion inhibitors, and remains flexible for life.  I then reinstalled the skid plates with Marine Grade Stainless Steel 8mm hex bolts and washers, coated with aluminum based Permatex anti-seize before installation.  I remove and clean the skid plates before every 5000 mile service, and touch them up as required on the underside, if the sand has ablated any corners.  Before re-intallation, I put the truck up on the lift at the Navy Base Auto-Hobby shop and correct any areas with 2 coats of Rustoleum rust neutralizer (the second coat negates the need for a topcoat).

 

How does your frame look today? I have a 2017 and the frame looks pretty terrible. It has never been treated with anything. 

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except for surface rust on the OEM carbon steel fastener heads - the frame, according to the Toyota Dealer, looks almost pristine - of course it does look "fuzzy" where the sand has stuck to the Waxol - am diligent about rinsing it after every beach trip witha wand from West Marine that is used to rinse off Tuna Towers, and once a year, I inspect and repair the coating on "edges" like I outlined above. 

West Marine Spray Wand.jpg

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