rekmeyata

couple of rods I'm deciding on

17 posts in this topic

I got some good insight on this forum before so now I have another question.

 

I bought a Daiwa BG 2500 based in insight I got from here, now I'm deciding on which rod to get for it.  I went to Sportsman Warehouse where I live and looked at a lot of rods, especially the St Croix Premier, Doybins Sierra, Halo HFX, and another rod I can't recall.  The sales guy put those rods out for me to see because he felt they were the best in the $150 region I was looking at, he then did something I've never seen done before, he had me hold the rods like I would fishing, and then arched the tip just a bit and placed them on his voice box on his throat and talked, supposedly I was supposed to feel his voice vibrating through the rod but the only one I could feel that happening was with the Halo, which sort of surprised the sales guy but he said my hands may not be as sensitive as other people's hands, but because I could feel the vibration I was pretty much sold on the Halo.  The Halo has that 4 finger  thing where the blank of the rod is exposed by where you handle it when fishing, and that could be the reason I felt the vibration since it didn't have to travel through the blank and into the foam or cork handle in order for me to feel it, so that could be the selling point for me if my hands are not as sensitive as others.

 

Due to that test, and a lot of internet reading I kind of really like the Halo, however, on another forum they were saying that the Daiwa Tatula might be a better rod over the Halo, but I have no way to test it for that strange vibration test that I did.  I do mostly freshwater inland lakes fishing up in northern Indiana, I may go to other places but that is where I live thus that is where I fish the most.  I know people have their favorite rods, and reels too, I get that.

 

So, do you guys have any insight on those two rods?  

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That test is kinda sales gimmicky in my opinion. And what if you feel vibrations on multiple rods? The real test of sensitivity is dragging a jig at a lake or pond or fishing a drop shot. Sensitivity is also relative. I use to think Mitsubishi 30 ton rods like the Dobyns Fury were sensitive and they are, but then I fished rods more expensive.  My thought is that people probably place too much emphasis on it. As for rods, my preference would be for the Daiwa Tatula spinning rod. I like the handle better (ergonomics) and you are getting better guides on that rod. This video could be helpful to you:  Dawia Tatula Rod Review! (Plus what's the deal with Kage and Tatula Elites?!) - YouTube  

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Posted (edited) · Report post

I can only speak for the Premier but mine is UL.  Great rod though.  For M or MH, I would say Premier would still be a great choice.  Or a little more $$ for an Avid.  My 7MXF Avid Inshore has a BG 2500 and is a spectacular setup for both schoolies and FW fishing.  But if you're only doing FW, the regular Avid would be an excellent choice and less $$ than the Inshore.  Great all-around rod and great warranty.

Edited by Skunkoff

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I'll echo Skunkoff's post and go one step further, although it seems the St. Croix Premier isn't in your final 2, so take it for what it's worth. I had a 6'6" Premier medium rod that was used for LM bass, smallies, and trolling for brook trout and had it for 15 yrs, longer probably. It was a great rod, loved it actually, and had it paired with a Shimano Symetre 2500 (same weight as the BG 2500). I snapped the tip in the tonneau cover on my pickup and called St. Croix. I could have gotten the same rod, but after speaking with the rep, I upgraded to the 7' medium Avid (freshwater) and paired it with the BG 2500. It's a great setup, balances well, and it's worked out perfectly for me...particularly while trolling for brookies on an annual trip. To be honest, I think I could have gone with the Premier and been totally happy, but the Avid is a great rod in it's own right. I actually bought a 6' Premier in UL paired with a Pflueger President 20 for this year's trip...basically used it when taking a break from trolling and was casting small rooster tails, rapalas, trout magnets, and ice jig heads. After the trip, the UL solidified in my mind how much of a fan of the Premier rods I am after all these years. Maybe not for everyone, and there are certainly more expensive and more sensitive rods out there, but for me, they really do seem to check all the boxes. And their warranty and customer service has been outstanding the couple of times I've dealt with them...and the issues were my error, no less. 

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On 5/10/2022 at 9:43 PM, rekmeyata said:

I got some good insight on this forum before so now I have another question.

 

I bought a Daiwa BG 2500 based in insight I got from here, now I'm deciding on which rod to get for it.  I went to Sportsman Warehouse where I live and looked at a lot of rods, especially the St Croix Premier, Doybins Sierra, Halo HFX, and another rod I can't recall.  The sales guy put those rods out for me to see because he felt they were the best in the $150 region I was looking at, he then did something I've never seen done before, he had me hold the rods like I would fishing, and then arched the tip just a bit and placed them on his voice box on his throat and talked, supposedly I was supposed to feel his voice vibrating through the rod but the only one I could feel that happening was with the Halo, which sort of surprised the sales guy but he said my hands may not be as sensitive as other people's hands, but because I could feel the vibration I was pretty much sold on the Halo.  The Halo has that 4 finger  thing where the blank of the rod is exposed by where you handle it when fishing, and that could be the reason I felt the vibration since it didn't have to travel through the blank and into the foam or cork handle in order for me to feel it, so that could be the selling point for me if my hands are not as sensitive as others.

 

Due to that test, and a lot of internet reading I kind of really like the Halo, however, on another forum they were saying that the Daiwa Tatula might be a better rod over the Halo, but I have no way to test it for that strange vibration test that I did.  I do mostly freshwater inland lakes fishing up in northern Indiana, I may go to other places but that is where I live thus that is where I fish the most.  I know people have their favorite rods, and reels too, I get that.

 

So, do you guys have any insight on those two rods?  

 

The Tatula is the best rod out of the ones you listed by a fair margin. If you're willing to up the budget to 200 I highly recommend the Zodias. And after that...Expride!

 

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17 mins ago, buddha162 said:

 

The Tatula is the best rod out of the ones you listed by a fair margin. If you're willing to up the budget to 200 I highly recommend the Zodias. And after that...Expride!

 

Yup, those are exactly my thoughts!

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18 hours ago, buddha162 said:

 

The Tatula is the best rod out of the ones you listed by a fair margin. If you're willing to up the budget to 200 I highly recommend the Zodias. And after that...Expride!

 

Expride are outstanding rods, but don’t overlook that Halo series, those rods have impressed the hell out of me. The KS II Elite rods are definately worth a hard look.

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OK, it's been quite a thrill researching this stuff.  I went back to my friend today and talked to him in length about what I should get.  We came to the conclusion that for one I need a 2 piece rod and not a 1 piece due to difficulty I would have trying to transport a 1 piece rod, so, Halo, St Croix, and others are out of the picture.  Also, it's very difficult to find a medium light action with a extra fast taper rod in a 2 piece that won't cost an arm and a leg, my budget was around $150.  After he and I looked some more, the best rod he and I came up with was a 2 piece medium action, extra fast taper Daiwa Tatula!  Which was a rod a couple of you guys mentioned.  The problem is, it may not be in stock, so I have to call the place tomorrow and check, they did say they could back order it on the internet.

 

Thanks guys, I appreciate you all helping me out with this.  I haven't bought new fishing gear in 35 or so years, a lot has changed since then!  I needed to get some new stuff due to my Shimano Aero ULSA XT7 got a little rough last time I went fishing, I did take it apart and relubed it but it's not smooth like it was, though reels made back then aren't near as smooth as reels made today. So once I got a new Daiwa BG2500 spinning reel about 2 weeks ago, I then had to get a new rod to move up to more modern technology.  I will still use the Shimano with the old Berkley Lightening I6 rod, which sometimes I put that reel on a Fenwick glass rod, depending on the action I want.  So, I will be looking forward to using the new technology stuff.

 

My next purchase sometime this coming fall will be some sort of Tenkara rod to take on my bicycle camping and touring trips.  I currently fish when bike camping with a YoYo automatic reel!  LOL, I've actually caught fish with it!  Google it if you don't know what a YoYo reel is, it's a survival reel, but I use it for something to do when camping.

 

Anyways, thanks again guys for your advice.

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Sounds like you had a homoerotic experience at the tackle store... Don't get too caught up on sensitivity. I haven't experienced any fish giving my lure a hummer, usually it's a bit more of a thump or watch the line will move. Graphite rods transmit vibration quicker than glass rods, graphic being a harder material. 

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9 hours ago, michael.t said:

Sounds like you had a homoerotic experience at the tackle store... Don't get too caught up on sensitivity. I haven't experienced any fish giving my lure a hummer, usually it's a bit more of a thump or watch the line will move. Graphite rods transmit vibration quicker than glass rods, graphic being a harder material. 

Highly disagree. Sensitivity is the major factor for me when selecting a rod. It’s true that most rods will detect a “hard” strike from an aggressive fish, but a rod with no feel will miss most soft bites, especially in deeper water. It helps not only with detecting bites, but also what my lure is doing during my retrieve.

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On 5/17/2022 at 5:09 PM, Mack26 said:

Highly disagree. Sensitivity is the major factor for me when selecting a rod. It’s true that most rods will detect a “hard” strike from an aggressive fish, but a rod with no feel will miss most soft bites, especially in deeper water. It helps not only with detecting bites, but also what my lure is doing during my retrieve.

I totally agree Mack.

 

When the first graphite rods came out in the 70's they changed my fishing success and enjoyment dramatically.  Since then I have been on the hunt for the lightest, most sensitive low memory reasonably priced rods I could find, but most of them were not as sensitive as those early Daiwa graphite rods.  15 years ago I decided to bite the bullet and try some of the best rods available and while Shimano and Daiwa rods were excellent, the most sensitive and lowest memory rods I have ever found were the G. Loomis NRX rods. Those rods took my fishing to an entirely different level like those early graphite rods did.

 

Some of the other major manufacturers high prices rods offerings had excellent fit and finish, however the were poorly engineered dead sticks that did not perform well and I quickly traded them in for other rods. You would think that once you reached the $400 dollar plus range that all the rods would be good to great, but that was not the case. Unlike Loomis, Daiwa, and Shimano not many of the other rod manufacturers have figured out how to achieve the high level of performance, engineering and durability that these three have achieved. Some of those other manufacturers' rods were light and low memory, but fragile while others were heavier and tough, but poorly engineered dead sticks with lots of memory. 

 

The NRX rods are expensive and for that reason I have only bought one every three years or so, but it is hard to fish with anything else once you have experienced them.  The new version of the NRX series the NRX + came out a year ago and the most popular models sold out in only a few weeks.  The NRX + are available again and I purchase one, fished with it and all I can only say WOW! It is far lighter, has lower memory, and is even more powerful than the original NRX series of Rods.

 

If you are willing to make the investment to replace one of your favorite rods you might want to consider the NRX +, but I have to warn you that it is tough to go back to anything else. I also have to warn you that the NRX and NRX + rods with their tiny recoil guides are designed to be braid launchers and are single piece. The NRX rods are great long distance braid launchers, but if you are fishing with mono or fluorocarbon lines the best Shimano and Daiwa rods with their larger guides are a better choice for casting distance. While there are some other manufacturers that might have one or two good to great rods in their rod series, G. Loomis, Shimano and Daiwa seem to be the best engineered and have the most consistent performance when it comes to all of their rods. IMO if you are looking for great blanks, engineering, components, durability and consistent performance these three manufacturers lead the pack.

Edited by Long Wader

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Rekmeyata,

I'm no engineer so please excuse my poor, over simplified explanation of of this concept. Sound is simply a vibration wave in the air that your ear picks up and replicates so your brain can register it, or in our case feel it. It will also transmit through any mass light enough continue the vibration, we hear in the range of 20 to 20,000 Hertz, however the bite of a fish, the thump of a blade, wiggle of a spoon are lower than that range by a considerable margin so you can see your voice box is not the best test.

Now the rod also a tapered tube that changes in mass concentration as you go from tip ro butt and it has other components attached permanently to it that become a whole entity with the blank while fishing, this includes the  reel and line. We know anytime a vibration comes to a change in mass  (guides, wraps, ferrules grips, etc.) it causes a discontinuance, a reflection of your bite vibration down the blank in the opposite direction away from your hand, so any change in mass be it the carbon mass and taper, a guide, grip, or reel seat reflects back more of the signal we feel. The more the change in mass, the more is deadened before reaching our hand. This is where you noticed your difference I believe, a higher modulus blank would usually be lighter with less mass, smaller, or less guides decrease mass, especially in the tip area where the vibration is first transmitted. Your touch point to the blank would likely be on a lighter component more than because it's there, the difference after becoming a part of the whole in any other way I believe would be beyond our sensory perception to notice.

Hope I helped.

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SpoonPlugger1; thanks for the interesting comments, stuff I didn't know.

 

When a voice is being transmitted and those vibrations are being pushed into the skin of the throat, does that lower the frequency substantially or not?  Because when I put my finger up to my voice box area all I feel is slight movement.

 

Do I take from what you said that a lighter rod is more sensitive than a heavier rod?  Does an ounce make a huge difference? or are we talking heavy like a Shakespear Ugly Stik difference?

 

From what I heard almost all rod makers are going with more guides, supposedly these aid in casting further, but in the process of adding more guides, does it take away some sensitivity?  If so, then why are all the big rod companies adding more guides?

 

I ran into a problem from Daiwa, apparently, they now do not know when the Tatula will be in, it could be 6 months or longer, plus an online store that sold their rods said it was a true M action rod, and I wanted a ML at the very most, and hopefully a L or a UL.  So, I went back to Sportsman Warehouse and the pro fishing sales guy there told me that everyone, including himself, are now using the 7' Temple Fork Outfitters Panfish Trout rod with ultralight action and a very fast taper, weighing 3.3 ounces, but it is a single piece which I may have to go to since finding a good 2 piece one seems to be a headache.  The Trout Panfish rod is no longer listed on their website, so I think they may have stopped making it, but I was able to order it from another Sportsman Warehouse store.  Supposedly the chief engineer and designer at Temple Fork Outfitters was the chief engineer and designer at G Loomis for many years is designing a lot of their rods.  I needed a rod pretty quickly for a trip I'm taking next month. 

 

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I’m a die hard Dobyn’s rod guy, and would highly recommend the Champion Series. They are outstanding rods.

Another rod i tried out this year is the Shimano Expride. It is super light, very sensitive, and a ton of backbone. I have quickly fell in love with this rod for my jig fishing.

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2 hours ago, Mack26 said:

I’m a die hard Dobyn’s rod guy, and would highly recommend the Champion Series. They are outstanding rods.

Another rod i tried out this year is the Shimano Expride. It is super light, very sensitive, and a ton of backbone. I have quickly fell in love with this rod for my jig fishing.

Also a big fan of the Dobyns Champion rods. I find their application specific ratings very accurate as well. ie; crankbait rods, swimbait, Senko, etc. I've got at least a half dozen Dobyns. 

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