Jump to content

Let's Talk Trichoptera - Caddis, Flies & Techniques

Rate this topic


flyangler

Recommended Posts

31 mins ago, flyangler said:

Ah, chimarra? I think I recall that name from being on the Delaware at this time in the past. 

 

 

 

That's a kool name for them . I'll probably always call them the Mother's day Caddis likely because that's when I really took notice of them. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, flyangler said:

So what common characteristic do you see in most of these flies? 

 

A lot of them have posts.  Some for visibility, others are parachute flies.  I'm not sure if the larger parachute flies with legs are caddis imitations.  They may be stone flies.  A couple have orange hot spots on the butt ends to imitate egg laying caddis.  Since I don't associate using foam for tying caddis, the foam ones may be small hopper imitations, especially with the green body. And two, based on the bright green bodies, are green rock worm imitations.   Also, there's a lot of CDC being used in the as material in the flies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 mins ago, smath said:

Google "The Dishonest Caddis." It's an interesting article in Hatch Magazine online about Tom Rosenbauer's advice for fishing caddis.

That is a great article, worth highlighting a bit here since it is so relevant, and why this "bouncing caddies" technique can draw some serious rises. From that Hatch article. 

 

“The caddis is the most dishonest fly ever,” Rosenbauer said. The room went deathly quiet. I remember turning my head and giving Tom the proverbial side-eye.

 

“What?” I asked under my breath. “A dishonest fly?”

 

Tom didn’t leave me hanging. And the explanation was brilliant.

 

Here’s the gist. Adult caddisflies spend precious little time on the water—usually only when they dip and dance during the egg-laying process. Most of the time, adult caddisflies are well above the surface of the water, flying about largely out of reach or resting in the branches of overhanging vegetation. That’s why, during a prolific hatch, you’ll often see smaller trout leaping completely out of the water trying to grab airborne bugs.

 

“That’s too much work for a big trout,” I remember Tom saying. “You don’t see 20-inch trout expending that much energy chasing caddisflies. It’s just not worth it.”

 

Instead, Tom said, bigger fish tend to look for easier meals—bites of protein that don’t require the output of much energy. Generally speaking, trout are a lot like other fishy predators. If they can, they’ll wait for meals to come to them. And caddis … well, healthy, adult caddisflies are just too unpredictable. Or, as Tom put it, just too dishonest.

 

But when caddis actually hatch from the water, often it takes them some time to free themselves of their pupal shuck. Sometimes, the flies get stuck in the surface film as the shuck weighs them down. This “cripple” version of the fly … well, that’s at the top of the big-fish dinner wish list, Rosenbauer explained. The fly is stuck in the surface film. It’s not going to fly off or dance and dip and dive or do anything “dishonest.” It’s there for the taking. An easy meal.

 

I opened my eyes again in the back of the drift boat on that perfect Patagonian day. I reeled my line in and took a look at my generally average caddis fly. I took out my nippers, and trimmed the hackle along the bottom of the fly. Then I trimmed off about half of the elk hair bunched near the head and thinned out the dubbing near the bend in the hook. I dropped the fly in the river and noticed that it floated quite a bit lower in the water—not like an adult, but like a caddis caught in the surface film. It’s tail end was actually in the water, not on it.

 

The Corn Fed Caddis is a pattern with quite a bit of CDC and there are several both in my box as well as in that new order. One technique is to use bobber or foam dry with a CDC caddis underneath, 4-12" depending on depth, and a beadhead or heavy nymph below. Load up the CDC fly with powder floatant which will trap air when it is drawn below the surface by weighted nymph below. To the point above, it should flow just below the surface, looking like a pupae with its air bubble working toward the surface. Nothing more vulnerable than the pupae on that ride, making it easy trout food. 

 

FWIW, the X-Caddis that Hook post above works on the same concept as the trimmed elk hair type pattern, really low profile and sitting on the surface. Al Caucci's Comparadun is designed similarly. Same with Matthews' Sparkle Dun, which I think was heavily "influenced" by the Comparadun series. . 

 

 

“No nation in history has survived once its borders were destroyed, once its citizenship was rendered no different from mere residence, and once its neighbors with impunity undermined its sovereignty.”

- Victor Davis Hanson 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 min ago, Philly said:

A lot of them have posts.  Some for visibility, others are parachute flies.  I'm not sure if the larger parachute flies with legs are caddis imitations.  They may be stone flies.  A couple have orange hot spots on the butt ends to imitate egg laying caddis.  Since I don't associate using foam for tying caddis, the foam ones may be small hopper imitations, especially with the green body. And two, based on the bright green bodies, are green rock worm imitations.   Also, there's a lot of CDC being used in the as material in the flies.

Well, those are all observations but most of these were purchased for the visible post or hi-vis pink post. I recall one day on the WB of the Delaware in early May when we had two different mayflies hatching along with the chimarra (little black) caddis as well as an apple green caddis whose name escapes me. Literally blanks of naturals with every foam line having a coating of bugs on the surface. Tossing a hatch matching dry fly into that mix made it impossible to track your fly, even with good eyes. My eyes are still good, but not like 20+ years ago, so any post that can make the fly stand out from the naturals is welcome. 

 

FWIW, I don't love fishing with thingamabobbers or the new ones that screw on (Air something), preferring to throw a big buoyant dry fly as an indicator as long as I am not fishing rapids where even the most buoyant fly gets pulled under. I have NZ wool for those times, and even the plastic ones, but won't need those on this trip. So the rubber leg dries you see are meant as indicators. Hopper season does not start until mid-late July on the Mo, so trout won't be keyed on them and memories from last year are not strong. That said, every now and then that big ugly will get his on top, especially by cutties. 

“No nation in history has survived once its borders were destroyed, once its citizenship was rendered no different from mere residence, and once its neighbors with impunity undermined its sovereignty.”

- Victor Davis Hanson 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, this worked. I had found a longer excerpt from this short film but cannot find it now. They are using the bouncing caddis concept and filmed some unreal takes, with even big trout jumping clear of the surface to get these supposed ovipositing caddis. 

 

The rig is easy, heavy beadhead at the point and a very dry (CDC, CDC & Elk, etc) caddis dry dropped from a knot. Long level leader and tight line from rod tip and just vibrate the rod enough to have that dry fly dappling the surface. 

 

I WILL be trying this out West, even if the guides think I am crazy.....

 

 

 

Edited by flyangler

“No nation in history has survived once its borders were destroyed, once its citizenship was rendered no different from mere residence, and once its neighbors with impunity undermined its sovereignty.”

- Victor Davis Hanson 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This guy employs same concept, but with a shorter dropper than the other guys. And he misses lots of fish, which might be standard with such a technique. 

 

 

“No nation in history has survived once its borders were destroyed, once its citizenship was rendered no different from mere residence, and once its neighbors with impunity undermined its sovereignty.”

- Victor Davis Hanson 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, flyangler said:

So here is my dilemma - as a non-tier, I buy commercial flies with little logic or plan. And given I store my flies reasonable well, they last a long time. 

 

I use a SA CF Designs box for caddis and this is 20 years worth of accumulated flies. Many are were tied for Caucci's shop, some Umpqua and other commercial ties, some are smaller tiers, there are a dozen or more in here tied for me by the late Shane Stalcup over a decade ago.

 

As you can see, a smattering of everything by pattern type, color, size, etc. Wets, emergers, duns, cripples, CDC, "air bubble" looks, a bit of everything. 

 

And the worst thing, when floating, the guide is likely to supply one of his preferred flies which are likely to work better than these. I do plan to spend a little time bank or wade fishing before the day starts or into dusk back at the lodge. I am a glutton and try to maximize my times. 

 

 

IMG_7317.jpeg.8e01438522d16bd0db2e32efba24f7c9.jpeg

 

IMG_7318.jpeg.00d5b2044017dab5e13ebb90bb7d686a.jpeg

 

IMG_7320.jpeg.588818767dc13e3a47cd2d6bd3fc634e.jpeg

 

 

 

Since you don't tie, call up some shops in the area and ask what they recommend.

You can usually purchase directly from them.

In my case, as a tier, I order half a dozen of each and then tie up the pattern to fill out my fly box.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 mins ago, Steve_in_PA said:

Since you don't tie, call up some shops in the area and ask what they recommend.

You can usually purchase directly from them.

In my case, as a tier, I order half a dozen of each and then tie up the pattern to fill out my fly box.

Much of what I have are the patterns used out there. Lots of elk hairs, elk & CDC, the corn fed caddis (extra CDC) is from one of those shops. X-Caddis and Matthews' sparkle patterns as well. 

 

My flies will mostly be for when I decide i want to fish before breakfast or after dinner. When floating in between, I am sure the guides will have the latest and greatest. So my buying flies is more about that addiction I mentioned earlier, not to fill more boxes with flies that will never get wet....

“No nation in history has survived once its borders were destroyed, once its citizenship was rendered no different from mere residence, and once its neighbors with impunity undermined its sovereignty.”

- Victor Davis Hanson 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've never run into super highly selective trout in MT, at least not like they are in PA. I'll typically fish the same dry out of the boat all day, usually a 14-10 rubber legged attractor pattern like a turk's tarantula or a chubby chernobyl . Maybe wading you might work a pod of risers on something specific but I'm a big believer in presentation being the most important factor. You probably have all you need from what you posted. On our higher pressured PA waters I like cdc and elk or a front end loader if I need high flotation in rough water or for fishing a heavier dropper.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, flyangler said:

Much of what I have are the patterns used out there. Lots of elk hairs, elk & CDC, the corn fed caddis (extra CDC) is from one of those shops. X-Caddis and Matthews' sparkle patterns as well. 

 

My flies will mostly be for when I decide i want to fish before breakfast or after dinner. When floating in between, I am sure the guides will have the latest and greatest. So my buying flies is more about that addiction I mentioned earlier, not to fill more boxes with flies that will never get wet....

I know the addiction.

I tie fifty flies for every one I lose.

And when I get a fly hung up, I'll move heaven and earth to recover it.

 

I haven't fished Montana a lot but also find presentation and size the most important.

Except on the spring creeks.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Call me non-traditional but especially in a boat on a western river where you need to present the fly quickly and accurately I like a foam bodied caddis. Basically foam and elk hair,  if I'm tying it I'll include something hi-vis for my sake. The eyes aren't getting better. I say this because during a serious hatch you're going to want to cast, not fiddle with floatant. Like said before,  presentation will be your biggest hurdle typically, not extremely precise fly selection. That and I often forget my Gink.

 

Hex hatches can be a hoot. Here in South Central PA we don't get the fun stuff like stoneflies and big hoppers but we do get a hex hatch late in the summer and if you can find cool enough water it can be an absolute blast, minus the giant bugs slapping you in the face.  

 

 

I didn't think my first post would be about trout fishing .  Long time listener,  first time caller. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Rwb1500 said:

Call me non-traditional but especially in a boat on a western river where you need to present the fly quickly and accurately I like a foam bodied caddis. Basically foam and elk hair,  if I'm tying it I'll include something hi-vis for my sake. The eyes aren't getting better. I say this because during a serious hatch you're going to want to cast, not fiddle with floatant. Like said before,  presentation will be your biggest hurdle typically, not extremely precise fly selection. That and I often forget my Gink.

I have some foam "caddis" patterns to use as indicators with a sunken fly inches below the surface and a weighted nymph as the point fly. The Missouri has lots of vegetation underneath the surface which is supposed to create the biggest hurdle to drag-free drifts since undulated plants create currents seams underwater that you cannot see on top. Not a problem with a nymph that would tumble with the current, but the drag that can induce on the surface fly, being dragged diagonally by the nymph, potentially against the surface current. 

2 hours ago, Rwb1500 said:

Hex hatches can be a hoot. Here in South Central PA we don't get the fun stuff like stoneflies and big hoppers but we do get a hex hatch late in the summer and if you can find cool enough water it can be an absolute blast, minus the giant bugs slapping you in the face.  

I don't know about the Hex on the Mo - Caucci had it on his list but I don't see others mentioning it, not even the local shops like Headhunters. So I will buy none of those and rely on guide flies if they are a factor. 

 

I remember a coffin fly hatch on the Beaverkill at a time when I did not fly fish. Standing in the river after dusk tossing Mepps spinners trying to cover the loud and obnoxious rises of trout eating the big white flies. There were so many one flew into my mouth and nearly choked me (one's reaction time after several beers and a couple shots of bourbon are not conducive to not panicking when a big bug flies into one's mouth). 

 

Not a tap on a spinner but they were eating within a rod's length of where I was standing thigh deep. Taught me why "fly fishing" is called that. 

2 hours ago, Rwb1500 said:

I didn't think my first post would be about trout fishing .  Long time listener,  first time caller. 

Welcome, thank you for coming out into the light. I am "honored" that this was the the discussion....

“No nation in history has survived once its borders were destroyed, once its citizenship was rendered no different from mere residence, and once its neighbors with impunity undermined its sovereignty.”

- Victor Davis Hanson 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 mins ago, flyangler said:

I am "honored" that this was the the discussion....

Thanks for the welcome! I bought my 5th or 6th surf rod this week using information gleaned from this goldmine, figured I might as well get involved. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 mins ago, Rwb1500 said:

Thanks for the welcome! I bought my 5th or 6th surf rod this week using information gleaned from this goldmine, figured I might as well get involved. 

Many here have forgotten more about fishing, especially fly fishing, than I currently know, so a great source of info, and myth-busting. But like everywhere else, there are some strong opinions here that just might be in conflict with one another. Guide preferences, rod actions, fly lines, etc. 

 

Have fun and stay out of the Town Tavern and Political Graffiti, both will rot your brain (ask me how I know :freak:

“No nation in history has survived once its borders were destroyed, once its citizenship was rendered no different from mere residence, and once its neighbors with impunity undermined its sovereignty.”

- Victor Davis Hanson 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, since Instagram knows everything Google does, is it any wonder Instagram served me this video of the bouncing caddis technique? 

Note the big buggy fly on the mono dropper. 
 

 

 

69C11901-9315-486A-B7F7-F4E5BC8C2C06.png

78145C42-9C68-4FEC-936F-5FC84DA992A1.jpeg

6DD81F56-96C8-4D5E-9E0D-A95E414D4DE7.jpeg

“No nation in history has survived once its borders were destroyed, once its citizenship was rendered no different from mere residence, and once its neighbors with impunity undermined its sovereignty.”

- Victor Davis Hanson 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to register here in order to participate.

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×
×
  • Create New...