CaryGreene

Leader Design - Saltwater and Freshwater

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214 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, CaryGreene said:

A Tippet knot that works is all you need and with dissimilar materials, the Harvey knot is terrific on the terminal end. 

Yes.  I generally prefer a fluoro tippet for most of the inshore/nearshore fishing I do down here.  I wasn't satisfied with double uni, Albright or Yucatan.  Tried them all, and the Harvey knot seems best to me for that dissimilar material, dissimilar diameter.  

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2 hours ago, CaryGreene said:

Hi JRT, why fish a Fluorocarbon furled leader for surface fishing? Fluorocarbon sinks and it furled leaders also are basically "nets" that collect micro-debris. Why not just make a Saltwater version of a George Harvey Dry-Fly Leader? 

 

Unless, you are drifting deliberately under the surface with flies that don't float and perhaps have weight added (eyes) or neutral buoyancy -- in which case, I could see doing what you're doing. You're basically using a river fishing techinique, dead drifting to spots where fish hold and you're not really throwing a streamer and sripping it back. If this is the case, then there's nothing to disagree about. I've covered this techinque in the thread and you're using a braided leaderhow and where most Spey fisherman might do likewise - or they might prefer a Poly leader for added turnover and other benefits. 

 

If this is what you're doing, it's a fun one-off but by no means is it either something to disagree over or a worthwhile reason not to use Lightning-Leaders as they are designed to be used. 

 

Hi Cary, that's exactly it - I'm dead drifting flatwings and shimp patterns for bass so subsurface flies. 

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On 9/24/2022 at 1:08 PM, CaryGreene said:

Bingo! That's a great comment CharlieStriper! We're not alone in this view either. Bruce Chard down in the Keys says the same thing, after 28 years of guiding down there. George Harvey said this also and many others since.  The chart I posted earlier in the thread is a very general guide, but there is a TON of varrying Tip-Diameters out there in the line industry and Tapers change constantly as well. 

632f384b89b9f_Screenshot2022-09-241_02_53PM.png.5b915d65bd3e549a706e9777e364ea10.png

 

I get into this very topic more in depth in the Line Manufacturers Review thread, how when we're picking out a line, we need to consider various things like the front taper, the Tip Diameter (so we can match it with the right Lightning-Leader) the presence of a or absence of a rear step, compound tapers vs smooth, progressive ones, taper designs and how they affect the line's performance characteistics..etc. 

Interesting you mention Bruce Chard.

He was behind the design of the SA Grand Slam fly line.

I actually like the way this line punches out and penetrates the wind for tarpon, but I thought he had to be kidding using this splashy thick head for spooky bonefish and permit. And hence not really a “grand slam” line.

It was only on watching his construction of 12 foot bonefish and permit leaders that it made some sense. Rather than having a longer tapered fly line, he was using a thick butt section of mono as his extension of the fly line. And that a long clear mono butt and intermediate section of a leader has more stealth than any fly line taper. 
I would bet that even Bruce Chard would admit the Grand Slam is not the best fly line for a calm sea with no wind. But how often does that happen on his home waters in Florida?

And I doubt that the multiple step downs in his leader designs are needed for Northeast fishing. Although the thinner diameter of the middle section of his leaders may help the leader sink a bit faster, if that is your goal.

Anyway, it was on watching his leader construction videos using a thick butt section to match the diameter of his fly line that it made sense that fly line and leader construction had to be thought of as a continuous unit to deliver the fly, rather than the line and leader are separate entities.

Edited by charliestriper

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13 hours ago, charliestriper said:

Interesting you mention Bruce Chard.

He was behind the design of the SA Grand Slam fly line.

I actually like the way this line punches out and penetrates the wind for tarpon, but I thought he had to be kidding using this splashy thick head for spooky bonefish and permit. And hence not really a “grand slam” line.

It was only on watching his construction of 12 foot bonefish and permit leaders that it made some sense. Rather than having a longer tapered fly line, he was using a thick butt section of mono as his extension of the fly line. And that a long clear mono butt and intermediate section of a leader has more stealth than any fly line taper. 
I would bet that even Bruce Chard would admit the Grand Slam is not the best fly line for a calm sea with no wind. But how often does that happen on his home waters in Florida?

And I doubt that the multiple step downs in his leader designs are needed for Northeast fishing. Although the thinner diameter of the middle section of his leaders may help the leader sink a bit faster, if that is your goal.

Anyway, it was on watching his leader construction videos using a thick butt section to match the diameter of his fly line that it made sense that fly line and leader construction had to be thought of as a continuous unit to deliver the fly, rather than the line and leader are separate entities.

Great analysis Charlie! Chard has been quite an innovator. Before he got involved with scientific angulars, he was the champion of the tropical punch line from Airflo. Perhaps the most important takeaway is that the right leader makes any line work?

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