jjdbike

PLEASE HELP: Braid for ultralight frustrations

44 posts in this topic

Hello everyone. I love braid for salt water, both surf & boat. I find the heavier stuff easier to manage. I switched to YGK Soul on my UL surf spinner last year. I love the casting and sensitively over mono. I find it a little harder to work with in that I must pay much more attention to line management. It'll wrap around the  tip if I allow any slack while walking, unhooking a fish or switching lures. 

 

Last year I also switched my UL trout reel to braid, unfortunately I forgot what brand. It was dark green and felt a little sticky. It was great, sensitive, and casted amazing, again, other than the loop angels and tip wraps. On one occasion walking through the woods the line wrapped around my rod tip and I actually snapped the tip of the rod trying to untangle the line. On one trip to bigger water, casting was really important. I was out fishing my buddies by quite a long-shot because they couldn't cast as far using mono. I had a couple "wind knots" (yes I know they're not cause by wind but by loosely spooled line) and a few snags and lost some line. At this point I was under spooled and my casting ability was absolutely awful. It was terribly frustrating. Again, the line felt sticky, like it was sticking to its self. I topped it off w/ YGK Soul. I must have over-spooled it and perhaps didn't spool it tight enough or smoothly enough? On my fist cast it tangled. On my second cast it tangled. I had loops coming up from underneath. I unspooled it until I got all of the loops out and I had completely removed all of the YGK. What a waste of valuable fishing time and $. That stuff isn't cheap or easy to find. Now, back to being under spooled w/ the sticky green line and casting frustration. Even still, I had to deal with tip wraps. It turned out okay, it was small water and short casts worked. 

 

Now I need to fill my spool back up. On my last trip I swore I'd go back to mono. Now, as I think about what I enjoyed about braid, there were significant benefits, including casting, sensitivity, and interestingly, I like how it helped me control the drift. It seems to have more buoyancy and it's most definitely more visible. I use the visibility to direct and guide the line. I find myself "mending" the line similar to fly fishing w/ nymphs. I'm consider trying YGK again, making sure it's not over spooled and that it's spooled tightly.  am also considering ordering a spare spool and spooling it w/ mono just in case. 

 

Here's my question: I am respectfully requesting tips for spooling, casting and managing the line to minimize the tangles. Should I go back to YGK, or is there ultralight line that's easier to manage w/ a UL spinning reel?

 

I look forward to your replies. Thanks in advance.

JD

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What reel?
 

It sounds like a line management issue with the reel. Not all reels like all braids equally. I have a bunch of Penns that are loaners/back-ups and they are wind knot machines with white 832, but with Fireline fused (white or black) they are flawless. 
 

My work horse UL stuff is all Shimano worm drive reels w/ white 832 and I’ve never had an issue…

 

It may just be the reel / line combo.

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Do you give your braid a "tug" after you manually flip the bail after each cast? This will take care of almost all the "loops" you get on the spool... For light tackle and distance I use Gliss braid, its downside is it does not last as long as most braids, but the distance is great!

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22 mins ago, Stripernut1 said:

Do you give your braid a "tug" after you manually flip the bail after each cast? This will take care of almost all the "loops" you get on the spool... For light tackle and distance I use Gliss braid, its downside is it does not last as long as most braids, but the distance is great!

This is the most important advice. Always manually close the bail after each cast and pull the line onto the roller. This will greatly minimize loops and tangles in your spool. 

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47 mins ago, Inshore said:

What reel?
 

It sounds like a line management issue with the reel. Not all reels like all braids equally. I have a bunch of Penns that are loaners/back-ups and they are wind knot machines with white 832, but with Fireline fused (white or black) they are flawless. 
 

My work horse UL stuff is all Shimano worm drive reels w/ white 832 and I’ve never had an issue…

 

It may just be the reel / line combo.

Thank Inshore,

I always thought that Shimano Stratics were pretty tops when it comes to line management.

I know most of the fault, if not all, is mine. Decades of using mono on all of my reels allowed me to develop bad habits. The thing is, I don't have any of these issues w/ my regular surf rods w/ 20lb - 30lb braid. Perhaps it's the design of he rods, the thickness of the line. The biggest factor may be mt reels. Bailless VS. While not know for impeccable line management, being bailless they force your attention to line management. 

JD

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28 mins ago, Stripernut1 said:

Do you give your braid a "tug" after you manually flip the bail after each cast? This will take care of almost all the "loops" you get on the spool... For light tackle and distance I use Gliss braid, its downside is it does not last as long as most braids, but the distance is great!

Thanks!

I've got to remember that.

This is why I want a bailless reel for my UL surf rods. Like I said about my bailless VS 100, 150 & 200, they force constant attention to line managment.

JD

 

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3 mins ago, Flip n Dip said:

This is the most important advice. Always manually close the bail after each cast and pull the line onto the roller. This will greatly minimize loops and tangles in your spool. 

Thanks, I'll need to remember this. In order to limit tip wraps (a real and constant PIA) I also need to make sure I keep the line tight while changing lures and unhooking fish, though this seems like a really tall order. 

Do you guys have that happen, i.e. line wrapping around rod tip?

JD

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7 mins ago, jjdbike said:

I always thought that Shimano Stratics were pretty tops when it comes to line management.

They are solid in that regard. I have a 1000 FK spooled with 8# 832 on a 6’ St Croix Avid Lite action, never an issue…. :shrug:

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3 mins ago, jjdbike said:

Thanks, I'll need to remember this. In order to limit tip wraps (a real and constant PIA) I also need to make sure I keep the line tight while changing lures and unhooking fish, though this seems like a really tall order. 

Do you guys have that happen, i.e. line wrapping around rod tip?

JD

Line wrapping around the rod tip is one of the unavoidable evils of braid. I have snapped off quite a few expensive lures because I was not careful enough to make sure the line wasn’t wrapped after unhooking a fish, changing lures or doing something else that causes slack to get in the line. It is sometimes difficult to notice when the line is wrapped around the tip which is why it’s important to tug on it before casting to make sure it’s not stuck. 
 

Manualy closing the bail and pulling on the line all becomes second nature after doing it for a while. I do this with all my reels no matter what kind of line I am using. After  a while you will do this without even thinking about it.

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You didn't say what lb. test you use. For fresh water I've been liking Berkley x9 in 8lb. It' casts very well with 1/8-1/16th heads and a small plastic or an unweighted soft plastic worm. You might want to try using a longer mono wrap on leader, that goes around your spool a few times. It might help solve some of your issues and it gives you lots of room to tie on different lures without needing to change out the leader, among other benefits.

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30 mins ago, Seakarp said:

You didn't say what lb. test you use. For fresh water I've been liking Berkley x9 in 8lb. It' casts very well with 1/8-1/16th heads and a small plastic or an unweighted soft plastic worm. You might want to try using a longer mono wrap on leader, that goes around your spool a few times. It might help solve some of your issues and it gives you lots of room to tie on different lures without needing to change out the leader, among other benefits.

Bingo. A lot of spinning reels don't do well with braids below 10lbs. And you definitely want a quality braid like x9 or Maxcuarto - these lines manage easier.  

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3 hours ago, jjdbike said:

Hello everyone. I love braid for salt water, both surf & boat. I find the heavier stuff easier to manage. I switched to YGK Soul on my UL surf spinner last year. I love the casting and sensitively over mono. I find it a little harder to work with in that I must pay much more attention to line management. It'll wrap around the  tip if I allow any slack while walking, unhooking a fish or switching lures. 

 

Last year I also switched my UL trout reel to braid, unfortunately I forgot what brand. It was dark green and felt a little sticky. It was great, sensitive, and casted amazing, again, other than the loop angels and tip wraps. On one occasion walking through the woods the line wrapped around my rod tip and I actually snapped the tip of the rod trying to untangle the line. On one trip to bigger water, casting was really important. I was out fishing my buddies by quite a long-shot because they couldn't cast as far using mono. I had a couple "wind knots" (yes I know they're not cause by wind but by loosely spooled line) and a few snags and lost some line. At this point I was under spooled and my casting ability was absolutely awful. It was terribly frustrating. Again, the line felt sticky, like it was sticking to its self. I topped it off w/ YGK Soul. I must have over-spooled it and perhaps didn't spool it tight enough or smoothly enough? On my fist cast it tangled. On my second cast it tangled. I had loops coming up from underneath. I unspooled it until I got all of the loops out and I had completely removed all of the YGK. What a waste of valuable fishing time and $. That stuff isn't cheap or easy to find. Now, back to being under spooled w/ the sticky green line and casting frustration. Even still, I had to deal with tip wraps. It turned out okay, it was small water and short casts worked. 

 

Now I need to fill my spool back up. On my last trip I swore I'd go back to mono. Now, as I think about what I enjoyed about braid, there were significant benefits, including casting, sensitivity, and interestingly, I like how it helped me control the drift. It seems to have more buoyancy and it's most definitely more visible. I use the visibility to direct and guide the line. I find myself "mending" the line similar to fly fishing w/ nymphs. I'm consider trying YGK again, making sure it's not over spooled and that it's spooled tightly.  am also considering ordering a spare spool and spooling it w/ mono just in case. 

 

Here's my question: I am respectfully requesting tips for spooling, casting and managing the line to minimize the tangles. Should I go back to YGK, or is there ultralight line that's easier to manage w/ a UL spinning reel?

 

I look forward to your replies. Thanks in advance.

JD

every spining reel is desighed for mono,

they tell you it work with braid,they like to make profit that is reason why they tell you it work with braid.

all spining reels from $50 to $1000 will trow loops,and if sombody tell you their reel do not trow loops ,he is full of ****.

i am perfectionist,i make everything perfect or i will not do that.but i can not do this perfect,i fish braid 40 years any braid any reel do not work.

 

spining reel for braid should be desighn ,the top spool should be 1/4" biger that will prevent trowing the loop.

to solve this problem for long casting.

you have to get biger size reel and underspool that,the line has to sit 1/4" from lip.

 

thanks to the stupit engeneers,now you have to carie heavier reel instad to make the top spool biger  1/4".

 

i would salve your under spool short braid.

tie mono to your braid and fill to proper lenght,then take off spool and reverse,put the mono as filer.

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3 hours ago, jjdbike said:

Here's my question: I am respectfully requesting tips for spooling, casting and managing the line to minimize the tangles. Should I go back to YGK, or is there ultralight line that's easier to manage w/ a UL spinning reel?

 

What rod are you using and what lb test YGK? 

 

A lot of tip wraps with braid is due to line twist. People think braid doesn't twist - it does, it just doesn't manifest all the problems of straight mono/fluoro immediately. But what happens is the twists in braid work itself towards the end of your line and gathers there, then esp if you're jigging with slack line it can throw a loop around your rod tip. 

 

To combat this...every 2nd or 3rd outing, I strip off 30-40 yards of braid and run the line through pinched fingers and manually untwist the braid. You can see the loops forming and I literally twirl the braid in the opposite direction and run it all the way to the end. Do that a couple of times, and retie on my leader. It sounds crazy but I've been doing this for years and it works. 

 

The other thing is braid floats in the wind, so if you're jigging aggressively the braid can double back beyond your rod tip and foul on one of the guides. 

 

The remedy here is to never drop your rod tip while jigging along the same plane as when you raised your rod tip - ie draw a narrow elliptical figure with your rod tip while jigging rather than straight up/down. Make sure your rod tip always clear the slack, limp braid on the way down. Sounds involved when typing it out but it becomes second nature. 

 

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Thanks Buddha,

I was using the 7 1/2' Phenix Elixir w/ 1000 Shimano Stratic. I forget what test YGK I was using. It was what you suggested so what ever test you recommended. I just did some poking around and 14lb test is the lighter I've found. Is that the lightest & is that what you would recommend? Also, I've struggled tying the FG knot in the field. I resort the the Uni to Uni. Would you feel comfortable w/ that? Now, I'm not catching to steelhead or trophy wild browns either, stocked trout and local smallmouth.

JD

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43 mins ago, jjdbike said:

Thanks Buddha,

I was using the 7 1/2' Phenix Elixir w/ 1000 Shimano Stratic. I forget what test YGK I was using. It was what you suggested so what ever test you recommended. I just did some poking around and 14lb test is the lighter I've found. Is that the lightest & is that what you would recommend? Also, I've struggled tying the FG knot in the field. I resort the the Uni to Uni. Would you feel comfortable w/ that? Now, I'm not catching to steelhead or trophy wild browns either, stocked trout and local smallmouth.

JD

 

14lb is 0.6PE, which is the thinnest YGK comes in. I would use that with 500/1000 size spools but 16lb is also a good option. That's what I use on my 2500 reels. 

 

Honestly instead of going to a 500 size spinning reel I would explore the world of BFS fishing. The little baitcasters eliminates 99% of line management issues resulting from line twist, and is just a ton of fun to cast and fish with. Unless I need pure distance or need to freeline very light weights deep (as I do in clear lake smallmouth fisheries), I would've opted for all baitcasting gear a long time ago. If I ever get into small creek/river fishing where I'm target casting to eddies/overhangs short range 10000% I would go with BFS gear over spinning. 

 

Anyway, I tie a modified Alberto knot with any leader material under 12lbs - the FG is a waste of time in 4-6lb leader imo and actually damages such light fluoro if you were to tension it properly. Any variation of alberto/albright works well, just remember to trim the fluoro/mono tag end perfectly flush while leaving 1/4" tag on the braid side.  

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