Mike Oliver

Whole Fly Line Challenge.

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Think of the plane of a cast as being somewhat defined by this drawing:

6268e8b1767a5_Screenshot2022-04-272_22_55AM.png.8e678f488bf3e67a6086c25a66396861.png

 

Regarding the plane of a cast, whether the cast is overhead or completely sidearm and parallel to the water, the line will move just the same. There will be ZERO tailing loop if the cast is performed correctly. This image somewhat illustrates the point in a way in which we can visualize it. Imagine the above plane moving the same no matter what the angle of the plane of the cast is. 

 

6268ea0e9af85_Screenshot2022-04-272_18_40AM.png.8a5b6ebfae392be961895fbb3f6586f1.png

 

When I try to pull images off the internet, from seemingly cool technical advice sites, I wind up disagreeing with what I see almost instantly. Call it a trained eye. For example, here's an image of a caster getting ready to pick up line and cast it. Who can tell me what he's doing wrong and why his linespeed will initially be significantly less than it could have been?

 

6268e98b5fafa_Screenshot2022-04-272_20_04AM.png.da81e9592dc49d7753a0cea3c55db38b.png

 

 

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6 hours ago, JonC said:

Aerodynamics still hold the loop shape no matter what plane it’s in.

JC

Aerodynamics certainly affect the loop shape but that is very different than concluding they cause lift.  If either loop shape or movement of line through the loop caused lift in a vertically aligned loop then that same force would make a horizontally aligned loop veer away in a curve and fall immediately under the no longer opposed force of gravity.  That doesn’t happen and it indicates a problem with the lift hypothesis of fly line flight.

 

Again, I do not fully understand the forces that maintain a flyline’s flight.  Nor, I suspect, do you. I’m not sure the people that study it even agree on what is happening.  Let’s just leave it at that.  

G

 

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4 hours ago, DeepBlue85 said:

 

 

Insanely good thread.....this stuff belongs in a public hall with beer on tap.  

Keep the beer flowing and I'll keep reading !

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, CaryGreene said:

 

 

6268ea0e9af85_Screenshot2022-04-272_18_40AM.png.8a5b6ebfae392be961895fbb3f6586f1.png

 

When I try to pull images off the internet, from seemingly cool technical advice sites, I wind up disagreeing with what I see almost instantly. Call it a trained eye. For example, here's an image of a caster getting ready to pick up line and cast it. Who can tell me what he's doing wrong and why his linespeed will initially be significantly less than it could have been?

 

6268e98b5fafa_Screenshot2022-04-272_20_04AM.png.da81e9592dc49d7753a0cea3c55db38b.png

 

 

God, I always hated these “guess what the teacher is thinking” questions. 
 

Which image are you quizzing us on, Cary?  The bottom image does not fit with the top images (note his line hand and more closed stance in the top images). And why are you assuming he wants or needs line speed?   Certainly in the top images he doesn’t.  He’s not even planning to haul.  Those images, I assume, are meant to show the rod lift prior to beginning a backcast. 
 

The bottom image, with a SW rod and open stance, could imply the intention to pick it up and fire it.  If so, he’d do better to start with his line hand closer to the stripper guide in order to pull slack out of the system as he starts the lift prior to the backcast.  But he still needs to lift the rod as in the top images before starting back in order to avoid too large a backcast arc, unless he is making a very long pickup (with lots of water disturbance) and intends to put it right back down where it came from.   Getting his foot off the line will also help.  And he should be wearing eye protection.  
Did I miss anything else?

G

 

 

Edited by numbskull
Clarification

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, CaryGreene said:

 

When I try to pull images off the internet, from seemingly cool technical advice sites, I wind up disagreeing with what I see almost instantly. Call it a trained eye. For example, here's an image of a caster getting ready to pick up line and cast it. Who can tell me what he's doing wrong and why his linespeed will initially be significantly less than it could have been?

 

6268e98b5fafa_Screenshot2022-04-272_20_04AM.png.da81e9592dc49d7753a0cea3c55db38b.png

 

 

 

 

I'd be starting with my haul hand at least above the cork so the haul hand has more distance to travel, moving more line, generating more line speed into the back cast and more easily loading the rod with one back cast for a quick shot at a moving target.  That one flaw on the pick up can effect the potential of the presentation cast. 

 

Furthermore, Loop control using the haul hand helps remove tailing loops effectively on the back cast for me.  I grab the line from just under the stripping guide and haul into a back cast,  raising the haul hand with slow steady pace unfurling the line uniformly and correcting any loop problems if the rod is just slightly off plane or the stroke is too abrupt.  The pace of the haul hand creates a controlled stop vs a hard stop and maintains tension throughout the stroke which translates to rod load and line speed, and, distance. 

Edited by DeepBlue85

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38 mins ago, Mike Oliver said:

He ain’t needing a single haul to Chuck the amount of free line.

 

 

Preface my prior post with, "in principal" :howdy:

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, HL said:

Biggest is his rod arm should be extended

Herb

And . . . his rod tip must be lower, it's starting too high. ETA: In the first group of pics.

Edited by South Shore Fly

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It did until the pics :howdy:

 

What intrigues me is that we have had over 4000 views so why is it just a small group of us chewing it over.

 

What seems to be a simple thing to do make a overhead cast well is anything but.

 

I often wonder how many guys care or give Casting more than a second thought.

 

Mike

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Posted (edited)

26 mins ago, Mike Oliver said:

It did until the pics :howdy:

 

What intrigues me is that we have had over 4000 views so why is it just a small group of us chewing it over.

 

What seems to be a simple thing to do make a overhead cast well is anything but.

 

I often wonder how many guys care or give Casting more than a second thought.

 

Mike

 

 

I think finding a comfort zone is a distraction and abbreviates progress.  Some may be guilty of that but to me, mastering distance is the most important thing in fly fishing, without it presentation is limited to the water infront of you, which of course, is a discipline worth mastering in it's own right.  Asking questions and offering personal hardship highlights just how beneficial a casting lesson or two can have on one's ability to fish more effectively.  

Edited by DeepBlue85

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For most of us, learning to cast well is a big commitment.

I think the issue for many guys is time. 

It takes a lot of practice to improve and that needs a lot of dedicated time.

It also takes a lot of information to improve.  You can get this on line but be prepared to spend hundreds of hours doing it.  You can get it much faster thru lessons but be prepared to spend hundreds of dollars doing it.

Time and money take away from something else, particularly while working, raising a family, and trying to squeeze in some precious hours fishing here and there. 

The end result is one of short cuts and compromise.

We look for quick answers (rather than understanding) on you tube, we 'practice' while fishing, we rationalize mediocrity, and we hope we can buy improvement through technology.  

Looking back over my fly fishing life I wish like hell I'd spent the money I wasted on top end rods on lessons instead.........at least before wasting more on top end rods ;).

 

 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Mike Oliver said:

It did until the pics :howdy:

 

What intrigues me is that we have had over 4000 views so why is it just a small group of us chewing it over.

 

What seems to be a simple thing to do make a overhead cast well is anything but.

 

I often wonder how many guys care or give Casting more than a second thought.

 

Mike

Simple answer for me: While I love to fish flies, I enjoy the journey, and casting leads me to proficiency better than any other element of fly fishing. I can learn about everything else, but the physical element of casting is something I can do with water or not, and I enjoy casting, making course corrections, and experiencing improvements along the way. Of course, none of us ever has to deal with correcting bad habits after an active fly fishing season no matter how proficient . . . . . :rolleyes:

Edited by South Shore Fly

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