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Poaching: Mass vs Florida

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rst3

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Just arrived down south for week of fishing and came across this poaching article in Miami Herald.

 

There's no doubt Florida does a lot right when it comes to fisheries mgmt. I've had EPOs tell me they *have* to run a tight ship, because a healthy and well-managed fishery is the basis for such a huge part of their economy (and personal culture, tbh)

 

See if you can notice any differences btwn the Florida response, and what we ALWAYS see (or don't see) up in Massachusetts.

2 fishermen arrested and jailed after they were caught with illegal grouper in the Keys

State fisheries cops in the Florida Keys locked up two men Sunday after they said they caught and kept 11 undersized fish.

One of the men, 54-year-old Edward Cruz, from Fort Lauderdale, remained in Monroe County jail on a $12,000 bond. The other man, Carlos Javier Santiago Rivera, 49, from Long Key, was released Monday afternoon. His bond information was not immediately available.

 

According to the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, two officers were patrolling the Channel 5 Bridge area in Islamorada early in the afternoon when they stopped a 14-foot aluminum boat on which Santiago Rivera and Cruz were fishing.

 

The officers found nine undersized red grouper, one undersized black grouper and one undersized yellowtail snapper, said FWC spokesman Officer Jason Rafter.

 

After the officers read the men their rights, they admitted to catching the fish and to knowing they were grouper, Rafter said.

They face multiple misdemeanor charges, including catching out-of-season grouper, possession of undersized red and black grouper, possession of undersized yellowtail snapper and violating the aggregate bag limit for Atlantic grouper.

Fishing kills me exactly as it keeps me alive.

Hemingway, Old Man and the Sea

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The jail thing, yeah, but to me the biggest difference is enforcement presence in high profile areas.

I've been checked more by EPOs in my handful of vacations in Florida than in my lifetime in New England. 

 

The story that stands out for me; my brothers and I had just arrived for a long weekend of fishing and partying. Because we had a late arrival Friday afternoon, knowing we had a long drive to the condo, settle in and go out for dinner and drinks, I bought a license that kicked in on Saturday. 

Friday night when we finally got back to the condo, my brothers decided to go down to the local canal for a few casts. They had up to date licenses. It was about 10:30, 11:00 pm. They were encouraging me to come along even though my license wouldn't be current until after midnight. I opted out, just in case. Sure enough, they got checked at 11:00 pm on some worthless backwater canal. I would have got a ticket. 

 

Now it's also true they aggressively target tourists and patrol the obvious spots. There are hundreds of miles of coast where the crackers have free reign. 

Still, it's better than what I see in Ma or RI. The canal and breachways are full of tourists and shady characters and the EPOs wouldn't even have to get out of their trucks. But they don't show.

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I should clarify my above comments; I was specifically speaking of saltwater enforcement. I have rarely been approached by EPOs in saltwater venues in New England. 

Because I fish for stocked trout in Ma. I get checked frequently in freshwater. 

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17 hours ago, mikez2 said:

Now it's also true they aggressively target tourists and patrol the obvious spots.

I have been fishing and boating for years in Fl, I have found the EPO's to be fair and friendly.

Literally driven up to the boat and asked if we had the licences, YUP want to see them? Nope and drove on.

EPO just about removed my soul one night in Sabastion Inlet State Park when he announced himself out of no wear at 1130 at night.

Do break the law and the law normally leaves you alone.

In my opinion MA needs more EPO's.

There's no need to blow smoke up my ass as a lengthy preamble to your insulting another person. It doesn't fool anyone and it doesn't garner any favor.

 

TimS ---Tim To Otshawytsha October 16 2018 #3956

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44 mins ago, CapeDave said:

 

In my opinion MA needs more EPO's.

Ma needs EPOs that are dedicated to doing their job.  

How does it make someone feel when they call the 800 number to report multiple striper violations, only to have the dispatcher give you an attitude.  Then have the EPO show up three hours later.  Give you the same attitude and litany about how understaffed they are, and tell you they can't be everywhere at once.   

The Sultan of Sluggo

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My thoughts (which are, according to my wife, are sometimes accurate):

 

Having fishes extensively in Florida and read a whole bunch about their decision to ban inshore netting. They made the correct choice for unsentimental reasons, game fish alive swimming are vastly more valuable alive and swimming than on a plate. Other than shrimp trawling, industrial type fishing is much less of thing there as well. 
 

As for Massachusetts, From what I have seen, freshwater regulations are fairly well enforced. As a result, freshwater fishing is excellent. Marine fisheries are a whole different story, my guess is that the strong lobbying of the industry keeps enforcement to a minimum. As in that if marine fishing regulations were to be fully enforced for recreational fishermen, they might also cast one too many glances at commercial fishermen. 

 

Without major public pressure to enforce the regulations, the current situation will continue. 
 

The herring trawl court case particularly pisses me off....

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19 hours ago, MikeK said:

Its great that they locked them up and published their names.  The northeast should follow Florida's model.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

 

Was hoping someone would comment on Florida actually publishing/posting the names of those arrested for poaching.

 

I never understood why poachers in MA seem to receive some bizarre public shield to their arrest-able offense. It lessens the behavior and incident to a sub-legal gray area that is technically against the law, but not serious enough to treat like other law breakers.

 

In Florida? you poach -- you're a criminal. Simple as that. 

Fishing kills me exactly as it keeps me alive.

Hemingway, Old Man and the Sea

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6 hours ago, CapeDave said:

 

EPO just about removed my soul one night in Sabastion Inlet State Park when he announced himself out of no wear at 1130 at night.

 

Yep, I've seen them working all hours down here in FLA and have been checked myself when out at night for tarpon. 

Fishing kills me exactly as it keeps me alive.

Hemingway, Old Man and the Sea

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It always helps to know why a court sets bond. Were they out-of-staters? Floridians who lived up north, more than a day's drive from the Keys? Priors? History of non-appearance or open warrants? 

"…if catching fish is your only objective, you are either new to the game or too narrowly focused on measurable results.” - D. Stuver

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Yeah, FL and some other states take fish, wildlife, and resource laws a lot more seriously than MA. Arrests, fines, and restitution are a big part of enforcement in other states.

 

The Mass EP are undervalued and understaffed compounding the issues. Mass has about 75 officers for the state. FL has more than 10 times the officers and is only about 6x larger than MA.

 

 

Embrace American Privilege

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47 mins ago, Ditch Jigger said:

It always helps to know why a court sets bond. Were they out-of-staters? Floridians who lived up north, more than a day's drive from the Keys? Priors? History of non-appearance or open warrants? 

Those are good points, wrt bond.

***

As far as arrest and jail for poaching though, that seems to be the norm in Florida.

 

Many, many newspaper articles to choose from to illustrate this point.

 

Typical example:

Screenshot_20220413-173827_Chrome.jpg.4e6112a74d3a6272095a7aac5b75e54a.jpg

SEBASTIAN — A 37-year-old man was arrested after he revived a fish he illegally caught in closed season.

 

Fernando Pantoja, of the 1600 block of Wainright Street Southeast, Palm Bay, was charged with illegal method of snook harvest, possession of snook in closed season and possession of undersized black drum. He was released Saturday from the Indian River County Jail on $2,000 bail.

 

A deputy saw Pantoja shortly after 6 p.m. Saturday fishing in the Indian River at Riverview Drive, Sebastian. Pantoja was using a cast net to catch the fish, which is illegal for snook fish.

 

Pantoja also was fishing during closed season for snook fish and was catching undersized black drum fish, which is illegal, deputies said.

 

When Pantoja saw the deputy, he began throwing the fish out of his cooler with both hands.

 

The deputy ran to Pantoja and told him to stop throwing the fish, but Pantoja continued. He told Pantoja he needed to pick up the fish he had thrown.

There were at least 10 fish under the water at the sand bottom, belly up and not moving, deputies said. A very large snook was floating sideways on top of the water.

 

When the deputy told Pantoja to grab the snook and put it in the cooler, Pantoja instead bumped the fish with his hands and made it come to life. The snook then swam away.

 

The deputy apprehended Pantoja at the scene and took him to the county jail for booking.

***

Edit: it should be noted this guy was charged and booked for snook related offenses, even after the actual illegally harvested snook (cast net, out of season) swam away. lol

Edited by rst3

Fishing kills me exactly as it keeps me alive.

Hemingway, Old Man and the Sea

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