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What's the pick of 'value' rods these days?

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JRT

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JT,

 

The cost of a few quality hand tools is not excessive. Plus they will build you a ton of rods.

The learning cycle  similar to tying flies. It’s not hard. 
The job only turns to crap when guys cut corners, rush, and use make do materials.

You don’t even need a thread tyer especially for a fly rod. You can do it by hand. Or use the backs of dining chairs you know the ones with wooden slats at the back.

I have built a couple of surf rods in Montauk. Lights are so poor in rental houses I had to wear a head lamp. Had no choice 11 feet one piece blanks. Result was pretty decent.

Walking through on the phone and email I have done before and to be honest it is very tough on both parties. It would have been easier to have just built the rod for them.

I am somewhat anal when it comes to rod building. Best way to teach is side by side.

 

mikey

 

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2 hours ago, Mike Oliver said:

We never agree on builds slip. 
ok one day weigh a SL Torzite guide size 7. The practical necessity for me is they never wear out or go rusty. Price wise in UK a SL would set you back about £4.5 each say $6. Times 9 is only $54. Ok Stripper guide is expensive say $30 for a size 16. But not going to kill us.

mikey

This probably belongs on the Rod Building Site - But:

Since I, like Ted, try to build as lightly as possible - I agree with Ted re  S/F REC running guides.

However, Paul Arden who installs REC S/F runners on his lighter Sexyloop rods - does install runners with ceramic rings on his #10 rods.

He feels that the 10 has the guts to handle the extra weight.

And contrary to what I have been taught - friction between guides and line does play a roll in distance.

He said that he did extensive testing with both wire and ceramic and he does get a bit of distance advantage with ceramics in heavier wt fly rods.

I just don't enjoy the "spongy" feel the extra weight imparts to the rod.

Herb

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Herb we too have never agreed wire verses SL ceramic. But we are happy with our build decisions so no matter.

Now that is interesting that Paul saw a tiny increase in ceramics. My thoughts for what they are worth would be the other way. And it can depend on fly line material two.

 

The main reason I like titanium framed Torzite guides is they don’t rust and don’t wear out. So it’s one build only. 
Also I only use one two legged stripper now even on 10 wts. 
I don’t think the average caster would see any distance advantage of the ceramic. Both guides will not stop a Caster hitting 90 feet and how many guys can hit that when they want to.

mike

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JT,

 

After doing the re build of your lovely CPS  I made a pact with myself. Never again. Such a fine thin walled blank one just one slip and it would have been toast and my responsibility. I can’t recall now the hours I spent picking away at the high build on the guide tyes but it was a great many. A labour of love that’s for sure.

New builds relatively easy, re vamps are more than twice the effort and take more skill.

 

mike

 

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Having built probably over a dozen rods in my life I would add to the list of pros/cons for a first time builder that fly rods break pretty easily. If you build a rod that breaks you are stuck with it until you can get a replacement blank, buy a new reel seat and grip, strip the guides from the broken rod, and build up a new one.  You may be able to swap in a new broken section but sometimes ferrules wear down and a new section won't fit right. It's so much easier sending in a broken manufactured no-fault warrantied rod and having it replaced in short order. There is definitely a lot of reward building of building your own rod but it does have it's drawbacks too. 

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10 hours ago, Mike Oliver said:

We never agree on builds slip. 
ok one day weigh a SL Torzite guide size 7. The practical necessity for me is they never wear out or go rusty. Price wise in UK a SL would set you back about £4.5 each say $6. Times 9 is only $54. Ok Stripper guide is expensive say $30 for a size 16. But not going to kill us.

mikey

The two highest points of friction are the tip and stripper,the only place I use an insert/ceramic type guide.

We're not using braid so I don't feel Sic is necessary.I use a stainless steel ring that is lighter than the ceramics.A #20 SS stripper is under $3.

I have done a weight comparison using a #5,  .3g for the fuji and .1 for the REC.

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13 hours ago, JRT said:

The thought of building my own rod certainly appeals. Mike - the rebuilding you did on my CPS was excellent - still my favourite rod. But cost-wise, wouldn't I need all the tools and other materials. And then there is the learning curve obviously.

reference Drew's remarks,don't need "tools",look it up on,well,you know,you tube...very easy,if you can tie flies you got this,just take your time,pre-fit all parts,redo bad wraps,check guide alignment on 3 separate occasions to be sure before you commit to epoxy.I'd probably drop the $20 on a rod dryer,worth it for a nice finish and you'll probably use it again...

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On 3/18/2022 at 0:09 PM, MikeK said:

Under $600, I would look at the T&T zone and Sage Foundation.

 

Also TFO Mangrove and whatever replaced the bvk.

I have several friends that fish the Sage Foundation in a 7 wt. The rod is based on the technology from the very popular Sage XP blank. The rod is OK with a WFF line; but does not do well with Intermediate or Sinking lines. It does not cast streamers very well. In my opinion the tip is too "soft". Just my thoughts; your mileage may very.

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JRT

Hands down - for the Bonefish Flats - the CTS affinity-X  4 piece #8

 

The nice part about rod building a CTS - is that if you screw it up - it will still cast better than a factory rod.

And if someday you want to make it look better - you can strip it down and do over.

Herb

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6 hours ago, JRT said:

OK, you got me. What CTS blank would you recommend for a #8 flats rod? I'll be throwing flies under 1.5 grams. 

As stated - The Affinity-X #8 with a Wulff Bermuda Triangle Taper #8 Floater. Comes in a SHORT head - I think about 25' or a 30' head.

 

The tricky part of buildig a fly rod is to get the reel seat concentric to the blank so the grip's ported end will fit properly.

So, the reel seat bushing has to be concentric.

I will dry fit the bushing for you before I ship the blank.

Herb

 

Edited by HL
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I have an Affinity (F)X 10wt built by Herb, and it is a very fine rod.  Compared to my Redington CPS 10wt it is more of a true 10wt, and very fast and stiff - bends mostly in the tip.  Less forgiving of casting sloppiness or errors than the CPS, which is already quite stiff and unforgiving.  Although Herb is the acknowledged expert in these rods, it might be better to look at the Affinity MX blanks if you are trying to match your older Redington CPS, IMO.  Not sure the MX blanks are still made tho.

 

Of the newer moderate-cost factory built rods, I'd think the Redington Predator is worth a look. It's built a bit heavier than the older CPS rod series.  I am fairly sure a Predator 7wt would up-line well to an 8wt line.  The Predator series is the only Redington rod I'd recommend since the CPS was discontinued.  A bunch of other Redington rods since the CPS turned out to be disappointing but the Predator series got things mostly right.

Edited by Killiefish
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Killie / JRT

The MX is a great blank - and still available.

But your rod is going to be used on the windy flats in the islands for Bonefish.

I recommended the MX to someone who, I thought, wanted a more moderate rod for Bones.

His buddy bought the "X" - which turned out to be the perfect tool for the windy flats.

The guy with the MX, after casting his buddy's "X" in the Abacos - then built himself an "X".

 

The "X" and the "MX" have the same exact tip.  The "MX" has a more moderate butt.

 

Mike O has, and likes, a #10 "MX".

If you want an "MX" for the flats - go with a #9.  It will fish like a #8. Also very light in-the-hand.

Herb

 

 

Edited by HL
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Herb, that's good info.  I just took a swing again with both my CPS 10, and CTS F(X) 10. the FX 10wt butt is super stiff, but the tip flexes perhaps a bit more than the CPS tip for the same casting effort, and the CPS overall is more moderate.  Does that sound right?   I'd assume the same is true of the Affinity X?

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