EricDice

Angle of the wing etc

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Hi guys, noob question:

 

In a SW fly, specifically with deceivers & similar styles, is there a particular reason to tie back to the bend besides getting more extension on the length of the material? 
 

Is there a keeling advantage or disadvantage to doing that versus angling the hook shaft/shank down & the fly materials off the back of the shank?

 

Do you get better hookups with smaller gap hooks if you. Leave more of the gap open?

 

Thanks in advance 

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Ditto.

Fouling from softer materials wrapping around the hook. Also using stiffer materials around the softer material used in the tail of a fly and protruding beyond the hook bend is a standard way to prevent fouling. Something bucktail is brilliant for.

As a general rule of thumb, I split a fly design in 2  - beyond the hook bend and tail provides the action, on the shank of hook provides the profile. 

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2 hours ago, JRT said:

Ditto.

Fouling from softer materials wrapping around the hook. Also using stiffer materials around the softer material used in the tail of a fly and protruding beyond the hook bend is a standard way to prevent fouling. Something bucktail is brilliant for.

As a general rule of thumb, I split a fly design in 2  - beyond the hook bend and tail provides the action, on the shank of hook provides the profile. 

Great rules! So:

-EP fiber and epoxy are perfect for the profile, or stiffer craft fur. 

-Bucktail and feathers do the action.

-Some feathers and flash should be supported by bucktail or other stuff. 

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Posted (edited)

Terminology issue: wing is material tied in on the top of the fly at or near the eye. Tail is what you tie in at the bend, or at the rearmost point on your fly, depending. 

 

Bouyancy, drag, gravity are the forces involved in this tail tying deal. If you put all your materials at the eye, hook is going to ride way lower than if you tie a bunch of the materials in at the bend. 

 

So part of the deal is due to that. I don't totally get the drag stuff trying to learn about it. 

 

 

 

Edited by TopStriperAngler

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21 hours ago, TopStriperAngler said:

Terminology issue: wing is material tied in on the top of the fly at or near the eye. Tail is what you tie in at the bend, or at the rearmost point on your fly, depending. 

 

Bouyancy, drag, gravity are the forces involved in this tail tying deal. If you put all your materials at the eye, hook is going to ride way lower than if you tie a bunch of the materials in at the bend. 

 

So part of the deal is due to that. I don't totally get the drag stuff trying to learn about it. 

 

 

 

Yeah, that’s part of the question!

 

I have seen patterns with most of the material tied to ride off the hook like a wing. In some cases, it seems to be because you’re using a small hook with a small gap and you get an enhanced “keel” effect when dealing with smaller hooks with less weight involved. (But correct me if that’s wrong- please. Purely guessing.)

 

Deceivers use the whole shank, top & bottom bend to eye, with mono extensions even.


And that’s a whole other line of questions- like when is it beneficial to use an articulated extension, when multiple sections, when mono extension versus hook/wire, etc?

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, EricDice said:

Yeah, that’s part of the question!

 

I have seen patterns with most of the material tied to ride off the hook like a wing. In some cases, it seems to be because you’re using a small hook with a small gap and you get an enhanced “keel” effect when dealing with smaller hooks with less weight involved. (But correct me if that’s wrong- please. Purely guessing.)

 

Deceivers use the whole shank, top & bottom bend to eye, with mono extensions even.


And that’s a whole other line of questions- like when is it beneficial to use an articulated extension, when multiple sections, when mono extension versus hook/wire, etc?

 

Might be good to post an image example of the fly you're talking about. But if we are thinking the same type of fly, with all the materials tied on top and arranged so that the shank is like 45 degrees or more below the horizontal, I can't comment because I haven't tied those types. 

 

Best thing to do is try tying one of them and seeing how it works out in testing. Check for how it runs between strips, whether it fouls when casting it full distance, and how it sinks. Try it with both a loop knot and a non-loop knot just to see if there's an interesting difference. The loop knot will let the fly move more whereas with a nonloop knot the mono tied to it will tame movement. 

 

I suspect that that style would provide for protection against fouling and the ability to make a tall profile that is thin side to side. 

Edited by TopStriperAngler

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Posted (edited)

Your overthinking the game. the hook gap is an important consideration but a chicken feather or whisp of bucktail is not an issue. Spinning or packing deer hair into the gap would be.
 

Nothing answers questions better than tying it up and testing it out, another fun aspect of fly tying. As for articulation, that’s a total user preference and there is no answer to when it should or should not be used or how many articulating points there should be.  The great thing about fly tying is you get to do what you want to do and how you want to do it. I got in on the articulation game and now I couldn’t really be bothered with articulated flies for the fly fishing I do. I found it doesn’t really catch anymore stripers than a plain old deceiver so why complicate it. 
 

Best part of fly tying is if you don’t like the fly you can cut it off the hook and start over. 

Edited by poopdeck

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