jjdbike Posted February 9, 2022 Report Share Posted February 9, 2022 Hey everyone. I know I'm killing this smoker thing. I should probably be posting on a dedicated BBQ forum, but I see there's plenty of experienced BBQ enthusiasts here to contribute to this topic.For those who are tired of seeing smoker threads, please ignore. As you all know, it's my OCD. Now to my question. I'm looking at dedicated charcoal - wood smokers, both vertical box type w/ fire box on bottom and vertical feed. The pros I've heard are the water acts as a heat sink helping to maintain even temp and reducing dramatic changes in temp. The other thing that I've read is it keeps products moist and protects them from drying out. That may also be a con, in that releasing moisture is a part of the cooking process and produces that shrink we look for in some cuts. It may also hinder bark production but I'm not sure. I know Myron Mixon uses water smokers and seems to produce good bark. I know he tends to cook hot and fast, and wraps. Perhaps the hotter cook helps tighten up the bark even in a moist environment? I watched a video w/ Malcom Reed review a water cooker and he said it was specifically designed for low and slow and that the water slowed the process and suggested not wrapping. I saw an interview with a coipition BBQ team that explained that they use a water cooker for butts and poultry to keep them moist and a dry cooker for brisket and ribs to crisp them up. Buying two quality dedicated smokers is not in my budget. I'd certainly appreciate hearing some input and experience on dry vs water smokers and smoking please. Thank you in advance! JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surf bomber Posted February 9, 2022 Report Share Posted February 9, 2022 I ccok baby backs on the Weber water smoker about $400 for 4 hrs at 250 degrees top vent wide open bottom three vents about a third open and never had to replace coal with a Guinness or three in the water bowl .. lol lol .. if I don’t sauce . If I sauce it’s 3hrs and 40 min then sauce ,then on a hot grill to set the sauce a little char …never wrapped my ribs . Never had leftovers … the few times I smoked brisket.. I cooked till done then wrapped it in foil and set in a insulated cooler meaning surrounded the foil with news paper and they were perfect. Never had left overs … amazing ribs . Com may shed a little light on the subject.. rd1 jjdbike and vce12342000 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnightpass Posted February 9, 2022 Report Share Posted February 9, 2022 Jim.. I almost always have a drip pan with water in it, when slow cooking in my Kamado... Not specifically for the moisture, or heat sinking... But to prevent scorching on the drip pan bottom... BUT... I do believe it helps with those items too... I still get a decent bark... Butch jjdbike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjdbike Posted February 9, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Midnightpass said: Jim.. I almost always have a drip pan with water in it, when slow cooking in my Kamado... Not specifically for the moisture, or heat sinking... But to prevent scorching on the drip pan bottom... BUT... I do believe it helps with those items too... I still get a decent bark... Butch Fully agree. Thanks Butch. I’m reconsidering taking the Egg w/ me. I suppose I just got turned onto the idea of figuring out a new dedicated smoker that might up my barbecue game. Other than the WSM, they’re all well north of $1000 after all is said & accessorized. Plus, they can not grill or bake. JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcbmx112 Posted February 10, 2022 Report Share Posted February 10, 2022 Most of the time I use firebricks. Sometimes I switch it up and use a water pan. Personally I don't see a huge difference between the two methods moisture-wise or bark-wise. Wrap vs no wrap is much more consequential. jjdbike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjdbike Posted February 11, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 18 hours ago, sbcbmx112 said: Most of the time I use firebricks. Sometimes I switch it up and use a water pan. Personally I don't see a huge difference between the two methods moisture-wise or bark-wise. Wrap vs no wrap is much more consequential. Interesting, What cooker are you using? So instead of a water pan between meat and heat source, e.g. under in a vertical cooker and next to in a horizontal cooker? When you wrap, do you cook hotter or increase heat? May I assume that wrapping help meat be more moist and not wrapping helps bark? JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcbmx112 Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 4 hours ago, jjdbike said: Interesting, What cooker are you using? So instead of a water pan between meat and heat source, e.g. under in a vertical cooker and next to in a horizontal cooker? When you wrap, do you cook hotter or increase heat? May I assume that wrapping help meat be more moist and not wrapping helps bark? JD I use fire bricks in both my kamado and my weber kettle; typically 2-4 bricks depending on what I'm doing. They usually reside in the coal basket in one formation or another. I learned it from posts by a member here, I think @HugeDinghy . I use them to hold the coals to one side when I'm setting up direct/indirect or when I don't need a whole basket of coals for a smoke. They could function as a heat deflector I'm sure, but I have a plate for the kamado. In general I cook BBQ hotter than most and I often turn the heat up a bit once wrapped. Ribs get cooked around 275F, pork butt around 300F, and brisket around 250F. And yes, your assumption about wrapping is spot on. It also speeds the cook up a bit. jjdbike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HugeDinghy Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 (edited) Yea that’s my move. It works well with the kettle. I will say that in my limited experience, and highly questionable intelligence, I would rather spray/ baste than use the water pan in my WSM. I feel like the juice dripping, hitting the coals, and coming back up to the meat adds a very important factor to my end product. That said I generally get hammered and wing it. Edited February 11, 2022 by HugeDinghy sbcbmx112, jjdbike and Kooky 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjdbike Posted February 11, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 5 hours ago, sbcbmx112 said: I use fire bricks in both my kamado and my weber kettle; typically 2-4 bricks depending on what I'm doing. They usually reside in the coal basket in one formation or another. I learned it from posts by a member here, I think @HugeDinghy . I use them to hold the coals to one side when I'm setting up direct/indirect or when I don't need a whole basket of coals for a smoke. They could function as a heat deflector I'm sure, but I have a plate for the kamado. In general I cook BBQ hotter than most and I often turn the heat up a bit once wrapped. Ribs get cooked around 275F, pork butt around 300F, and brisket around 250F. And yes, your assumption about wrapping is spot on. It also speeds the cook up a bit. 5 hours ago, HugeDinghy said: Yea that’s my move. It works well with the kettle. I will say that in my limited experience, and highly questionable intelligence, I would rather spray/ baste than use the water pan in my WSM. I feel like the juice dripping, hitting the coals, and coming back up to the meat adds a very important factor to my end product. That said I generally get hammered and wing it. Thanks gents!!! JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouQ Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 I have a 22" Weber Smokey Mountain (WSM). When I first got it, I would use the water pan. However, I generally found it to be PIA. It was hard to add charcoal mid-cook and I always ended up with a panful of nasty, greasy water. On one of the cooking forums I found a recommendation to buy a terra cotta planter base that would fit in the water pan and wrap it in foil. This serves as a heat baffle and a heat sink without needing the water. Once I tried this, I never looked back. It works great. I change the foil after every 2nd or 3rd cook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjdbike Posted February 17, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 9 hours ago, BayouQ said: I have a 22" Weber Smokey Mountain (WSM). When I first got it, I would use the water pan. However, I generally found it to be PIA. It was hard to add charcoal mid-cook and I always ended up with a panful of nasty, greasy water. On one of the cooking forums I found a recommendation to buy a terra cotta planter base that would fit in the water pan and wrap it in foil. This serves as a heat baffle and a heat sink without needing the water. Once I tried this, I never looked back. It works great. I change the foil after every 2nd or 3rd cook. Thanks for that. Have you noticed any difference in how the cook progresses of the end product? Have you adjusted anything about how you cook w/out water as compared to with? I find this a very interesting topic for two reasons. 1st When Googled, opinions are all over the board, even with pros.2nd, I will most likely be in the market for a new cooker in several months. Best regards. JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Dog Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 I fill the water pan in my WSM with play sand and a double layer of foil over it. Acts as a heat sink and makes clean up an absolute breeze. On long cooks, I never have to worry about temperature fluctuations due to water evaporation and having to refill the water pan. As noted earlier, no nasty, greasy water pan to empty and clean as well. sbcbmx112 and snag777 2 Hobie Power Skiff Fisherman Hobie Revolution 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouQ Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 3 hours ago, jjdbike said: Thanks for that. Have you noticed any difference in how the cook progresses of the end product? Have you adjusted anything about how you cook w/out water as compared to with? I find this a very interesting topic for two reasons. 1st When Googled, opinions are all over the board, even with pros.2nd, I will most likely be in the market for a new cooker in several months. Best regards. JD Hey jjd, I have been Q'ing ~25 years. I have had multiple smokers - off-sets, verticals, reverse flow, etc. I used to be focused on slow-n-low and try to cook at 225°. I got into competitions for several years and learned a lot. The comp guys protect their seasonings and sauces like crown jewels, but are more than happy to share techniques. From them I learned to cook hot-and-fast (275° to 300°). In a WSM, a water pan absorbs a lot of heat during evaporation and keeps the temps down. With the terra cotta base (or sand as someone else posted) you can get your temps up. I can run my WSM all day at 275° - that works best for me. As an old timer once told me "There's nothing magical about 225°, except waking up earlier and eating later." I don't find that the water pan does anything significant for "moisture" in the final product. If your cooker is reasonably full, the drippings create a good amount of humidity. Sometimes I'll use a spritz if I am only cooking 1 or 2 racks of ribs to help with bark formation. You can use straight water or water with a bit of ACV and brown sugar. What people consider "moist" is actually rendered fat and collagen, not water. What a lot of people don't know is that oftentimes a "dry" brisket is actually undercooked. The fat and collagen have not been sufficiently rendered. jjdbike, snag777 and sbcbmx112 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturdybeggar Posted February 17, 2022 Report Share Posted February 17, 2022 jjdbike.....my experience parallels BayouQ although not at a competition level. If I had to name one part of the equation that resulted in a finished product that was not what I expected it would be "over smoking". In other words adding too many chips too often. Surprisingly, you can overdo it with milder flavored smoke and it can be overpowering. This is my fault. Wet, dry, electric, charcoal, wrap or not - each has its own nuances. Makes it fun to try new stuff. Unless you have a Chernobyl meltdown you're going to end up with great food and get a pat on the back from hungry people. Good luck ! sbcbmx112 and jjdbike 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnightpass Posted February 18, 2022 Report Share Posted February 18, 2022 On 2/17/2022 at 5:40 AM, Water Dog said: I fill the water pan in my WSM with play sand and a double layer of foil over it. Acts as a heat sink and makes clean up an absolute breeze. On long cooks, I never have to worry about temperature fluctuations due to water evaporation and having to refill the water pan. As noted earlier, no nasty, greasy water pan to empty and clean as well. Years ago, I did this in a small kamado, but didn't put the foil over it.. As the thin alumn. pan warmed up, it "popped" ,salting my product with the sand... I thought the sand would be a good drippings absorber, making for an easy cleanup... Lesson learned... Butch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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