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VSX Gen 2

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Just an observation but if you've followed Van Staal on social media like Instagram, they went from like 1 post a year to recently posting stuff quite often...I think they even went 4+ days this week. 

Edited by jk20a3
Grammar

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On 1/24/2022 at 10:38 AM, LB said:

l have no problem buying G1 VR reels l just bought my second, my first reel is going on its 5 year a VR175, not one hick-up with the reel since it was bought new, the second reel G1 VR150 is a year old, the reel is like new box papers wrench MPU kit. 3-1/2 bills i'm happy with that.

l own VS reels also so l know the V line of reels gear wise VR is just as good as the VS reel, the drag l have not had any problem so far, to me, the VR drag is better than VS more drag surface better rang with the drag knob.

Like ged said the G1 spool shaft is fine as is, moving the drag stack to the top of the spool was a plus, but i'm not having any problems with the stack under the spool so far.

 

All  my reels VS and VR are using the same oil as my car 10-30 weight oil the only part that gets grease is the line roller.

Very interesting. How is the sealing on the VR versus the VSX? Also does motor oil harm the seals?

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Posted (edited) · Report post

They both use automotive grade seals. 


Oil actually prolongs the life of these seals, provides better sealing, and reduces friction.  Also, the VSX reels I owned came with what appeared to be oil on the seals (I’m not saying the reel was filled with oil from the factory). 

 

The VSX does a better job sealing the main shaft using a quad seal, whereas the VR uses an oil seal on the main shaft.  Besides that, they are, generally speaking, similarly sealed in the other areas of the reel. 
 

However, that’s not to say that everyone needs a VSX with a quad seal.  The VR is fine for many people.  Which one is best for your needs mainly depends on how much you submerge the reel.  

Edited by GSB706z
Auto correct

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10 hours ago, GSB706z said:

The VSX does a better job sealing the main shaft using a quad seal, whereas the VR uses an oil seal on the main shaft.  Besides that, they are, generally speaking, similarly sealed in the other areas of the reel. 

That still has to be proven, oil seals lip seals have stood up well in everything they were put in.

l have worked in the automotive hydraulic sector since the 80s if oil ran though it l have buit it or rebuilt it. l know about seals O-rings and oils.

 

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27 mins ago, LB said:

That still has to be proven, oil seals lip seals have stood up well in everything they were put in.

l have worked in the automotive hydraulic sector since the 80s if oil ran though it l have buit it or rebuilt it. l know about seals O-rings and oils.

 

So do you think automotive motor oil is safe for use on the VS? Reason I ask because once I spoke to a guy that said he ruined the seals in his VS reel by using synthetic oil.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Years back the reels originally came with 80-90 Castrol Hypoid gear oil, which I realize is not exactly motor oil, which you’re asking about.  Your friend is stating motor oil ruined his (I’m assuming quicker than just using all grease.  Or, has he also tried differential gear oil?). He may also be stating it because it is commonly written that Nitrile material is not to be used with “motor” oil.    
 

I’ve always used non-synthetic gear 80-90 style oil. The guys I know, including myself, that use oil rather than grease, use 80-90 type and similar differential oil rather than motor oil.


I believe I read at one point that LB said he uses motor oil, so maybe he’ll want to comment.  My fault, LB, if I am remembering that incorrectly.  

Edited by GSB706z

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Posted (edited) · Report post

2 hours ago, LB said:

That still has to be proven, oil seals lip seals have stood up well in everything they were put in.

l have worked in the automotive hydraulic sector since the 80s if oil ran though it l have buit it or rebuilt it. l know about seals O-rings and oils.

 

LB:  All good here.  No worries if we disagree.

 

I realize you know what I’m about to say, because we discussed this before.  If you’re filling a reel with differential oil (like 80-90) using a single oil seal on the shaft it will really weep out unless the seal is facing in.  What oil mix do you use in the VR with the seal facing out that doesn’t weep/leak oil much out the shaft? 
 

However, if you face the seal in, you’ll get more water contamination. One example would be with the original direction Visser pointed their seals. 
 

Even ZeeBaaS with two opposing direction oil seals will weep a tad more oil than a VS/VSX with quad seal.  
 

Just my 2 cents that VS should stay with the use of the quad seal on this new reel.  

Edited by GSB706z

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Posted (edited) · Report post

There are no disagreements, most of the time l just point things out l don't repost hearsays,  what l post is what l have done and is working for me and could work for you, l own both VS & VR reels.

l don't know if you went into my profile there you will see what l can do and have done. 

 

l had one US made VS150 that would not hold oil it would come out through the quad seal after some use.

 

4 hours ago, GSB706z said:

 What oil mix do you use in the VR with the seal facing out that doesn’t weep/leak oil much out the shaft? 

Oil will come out if you leave the seal facing out,

l flipped my seals in the VR reels now they're facing in, my VR 150 and 175 with 10-30w oil are holding so far.

 

10-30w oil is also in both my VS reel 100 & 150. with guad seals.

4 hours ago, GSB706z said:

 If you’re filling a reel with differential oil (like 80-90) using a single oil seal on the shaft it will really weep out unless the seal is facing in.

You have that right that's why l flipped the seals, now if l see a lot of oil coming out that means the seal is starting to fail with grease you would never know that until either your AR bearing freezes up or stops working because water got into the reel, now you need a new AR and pinion bearing and if you're lucky it didn't reach the main gear shaft and its bearings.

 

4 hours ago, GSB706z said:

However, if you face the seal in, you’ll get more water contamination. One example would be with the original direction Visser pointed their seals.

We don't know the whole story to that, other than where was an upgrade to the reel was it just flipping the seal that fixed the problem, or did he tighten up the specs in that area to make the seal more effective? or did he go to a different type seal? without an old reel and a new reel, it's all guesswork. There are seals with double lips, the inner lip keeps your oil or grease in the housing and the other lip is what they call a wiper lip that keeps out all the unwanted debris like water and sand, but if those seals are used the reel would be hard to turn every one wants there reel to spin like a Shimano reel, a waterproof reel will never spin like that.

 

Seals don't last forever.

Edited by LB

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Posted (edited) · Report post

LB:  I've especially enjoyed reading your content. We have similar interests in reels.  I discovered SOL in Spring of 2000 and have been reading it since, so I've read most of your content. 

 

My original post referencing the quad seal as superior for a heavy-duty surf reel is based not only on being used with oil, but also grease, whereas your contention is based on it not being superior to a reversed oil seal in a reel filled with oil.  Think about how many still run their VSX hard and still only use grease. Yes, you, I, and a decent amount of surfcasters run oil.  If you're VS, I think it would be smart to expect many users to be using it very hard with just grease.  I'm not surprised you do fine with an inwards facing oil seal because you're probably not weeping too much because of its inward direction and because the oil is so protective even if slightly diluted.

 

I base this off my use with one VR 200, two VS150s (1 USA external counterweight & one China), one VSX150, two VS200 (both China), one VSX200, one VSX250, one VS275 (USA w/external counterweight), and one VSX275.   I ran differential oil in all of them and have self-serviced all of them including the main seal.  I also ran just grease in them at times, too, which matters because that's what the masses will be doing with the new reel (not flipping an oil seal and adding 10w-30). I also have a 2014 ZeeBaaS 25 and a 2018 22 that I run oil in. I also help buddies with their VS reels. I have experience with all three situations (one oil seal, two opposing oil seals, and the quad seal), so I wouldn't consider that hearsay.    

 

Like you said, seals don't last forever.  I've eventually got small amounts of water in the Z through what I believe is from the main shaft seals after heavy, prolonged use with seal wear along the main shaft.  No lock-up, just weeping oil faster and slightly contaminated oil.  And the Z uses your idea of a facing in oil seal but then also adds a forward-facing seal.  However, with the VS/VSX I could get a little more use before I'd start to take in a little water.  My belief is that this is because of the quad seal, not the other seals throughout.  You mentioned tolerances earlier, and I agree that matters, too, but I don't think the main shaft seal on my VR fits any tighter than on the Z's.  

 

The idea of mentioning Visser is that it uses one oil seal and it's presumably used by most without oil. Addressing that seal is how they addressed the issue so even though it wasn't my reel, it was worth mentioning because it's an application with a single oil seal, like the VR. I understand you mention tolerances, but my understanding is they were not switching out main shafts to make tighter tolerances. Rather, it seems they were flipping and changing the seal material.  

  

Many guys fish VS/VSX hard and only get it serviced once or twice a season.  If I'm VS and if the X2 were to be the flagship reel to be as sealed as the VSX, and we know most will just use grease, I'm trusting the quad seal more than one single oil seal on the main shaft.  Be interesting to see what they do. 

Edited by GSB706z
auto-correct

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1 hour ago, jk20a3 said:

So if one wanted to try the oil route on a newer VS200 w/ fresh seals what would you go with?

lf it was me 10-30w, l know guys are running rear end gear oil 70-90w that has to be hard to turn in the colder months.

 

lf you decide not to use oil always add some lube to your spool shaft every so often, nothing is really lubricating the quad seal, grease that was put there when the reel was assembled gets pushed aside after a while or washed away, saltwater is not a good lubricant, a lot of the problem starts with the reel wash downs l see guys giving them showers and probably never re-lubing the spool shaft the quad seal will fail down the line faster without the lube, l tell my son that all the time but it falls on deaf ears.

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47 mins ago, GSB706z said:

So many guys fish VS/VSX hard and only get it serviced once or twice a season.  If I'm VS and if the X2 were to be the flagship reel to be as sealed as the VSX, and we know most will just use grease, I'm trusting the quad seal more than one single oil seal on the main shaft.  Be interesting to see what they do. 

You are right in what you're saying.

What I'm doing with my VR reels is a test that l wanted to do my reels are ready for this coming season.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

8 hours ago, AnalyzeThis said:

Sorry for the extremely newbie question here, but can anyone tell me what a cupped rotor is?

If you look at a VS or 706z the spool moves up and down inside the rotor cup

Most spinning reels are skirted spools 

 

Edited by nchit

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My best guess is that the redesign is a cost saving measure that would allow production to be more adaptable to market demand.  They’d have a single production line for bailed and bail-less reels.  I’m wondering if they are going to keep different main gear sizes for the reels, or flip over to just one size for the whole line, like the VR and ZB. 


The only consumer advantage I see is that if Van Staal nixes the AR on the main gear shaft, serviceability will become a lot easier for the average user.  I guess If you like flipping from bailed to bail-less easily that’s also a plus.
 

I’m a little peeved.  The reason I went for the Bail-Less VSX for my reels over the Zee was the weight difference, simplicity of the design, and compact feel.  The new design seems to be a step away from that.  If the old versions become unsupported, then I may be moving to Zeebaas for any future reel purchases.  

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