C.Crisp

Trading up trading down

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Currently own a 9 wt but thinking about trading for an 8 since I’m not having a great time casting, and I’d also like to use an 8 for bass. Maybe a line change would make more sense? Would I even notice a difference between the two?

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The rods not the problem. If you are not having a great time casting there lies the clue to your problems.

A lighter rod weight will not solve an indifferent cast. Another line will not solve it either.

 

There is a significant difference between an 8 wt and a 9 wt rod.
 

mike

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Posted (edited) · Report post

11 hours ago, C.Crisp said:

I’m not having a great time casting

You may need to explain this further.  What parts of your casting?

 

I am brand new to casting a fly rod. I have one season under my belt, so some of your dilemma is fresh for me.

 

What I think Mike Oliver is getting at,  is that equipment change is not going to help if you have not developed fundamental casting and line management skill.

 

Last spring before I even started on the water I spent a couple months watching casting videos and practicing.  I work at home so at lunch I would go into the back yard and practice every day the weather allowed.  I slowly worked things out from a 40 foot cast over time to a 70/80 foot cast. On the water, I think my best might be a 60 foot cast and then drops from there depending on wind.   Be sure to tie on a leader with a hookless fly when you practice.

 

I own a couple rods and although different in weight and attributes/behavior I can cast them roughly the same.  Fly casting takes practice and discipline.  Physically and mechanically it is far more taxing than picking up a spinning rod. For me it requires more physical and mental focus and I cannot spend as much effective time on the water as I can with other methods.

 

Taking lessons is what most people recommend.  You should also find a recommended instructor from your area.  I will be seeking out lessons this year.  I should have from the beginning but it was a money issue for me last year.

 

 

Edited by puppet

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A properly casted 9 weight is an infinitely more useful tool than an 8 weight. I’d probably first start by ensuring you have the right grain weight line for the rod. Then, I’d spend the money you were looking to put into a rod into a professional casting lesson. No idea where you’re located, but Ian Devlin out of Connecticut would be my first choice. Or, Mark Sedotti if you’re able to get in touch with him. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

1 hour ago, puppet said:

You may need to explain this further.  What parts of your casting?

17 mins ago, Ftyer said:

No idea where you’re located, but Ian Devlin out of Connecticut would be my first choice. Or, Mark Sedotti if you’re able to get in touch with him. 


After four years casting a 4 wt with no issue, the more recent addition of a 9 wt takes a lot more effort to suspend, or shoot line with. I’ve thought about lessons, purchasing a different line, and swapping for an 8wt to use it more for largemouth and back bay. I’ll be moving to NC/SC I. The next year, so if it gets used for striper, it won’t be in the surf. 
 

I’ve heard of Ian, maybe I’ll try reaching out once I scrounge some cash.

Edited by C.Crisp

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Posted (edited) · Report post

 

What flyline are you currently fishing on your 9wt? Some lines just are not designed for finesse and for carrying lots of line in the air. For example an Outbound short. It is kind of like fishing with a shooting head. Essentially one false cast to load the rod and then let it fly.

Edited by JEFFSOD

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A 4 wt rod is a wand. A 9 wt not quite so but with a good casting stroke it should not present any problems. 
Problems will be highlighted with a bigger rod and especially so when reaching out. From the info you are giving us it has to be your cast.

 

mike

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I'm also a recent 9wt from 4wt adopter, and from a 7'6" DS2 at that... There was definitely a learning curve and an immediate thought of "what the hell have I done". 

What's your rod/line setup? My biggest hurdles were not breaking my wrist on the backcast - a bad habit forgiveable on a 4, but it will straight-up hurt you on a 9 - and, coming from DT lines, respecting where the WF shooting head ends. Also try a line size up before you take a bath on your 9wt. My Maverick's designation is a joke; Amplitude Infinity 9wt feels 2 lines too light, Bass Bug or Titan Long feel much more appropriate. I'm in NC as well, and at both inland lakes and the coast (Rodanthe/Hatteras/Waves have great wadable flats) I could have gone up a size to cut though the wind.

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C.Crisp,

Most of us are self-taught casters.

Which is why most of us suck at casting.

We buy lots of expensive equipment and we catch some fish but no where near what we could if we had learned to cast correctly.

You are starting out and have a chance to do it right before you waste thousands of dollars, miss untold thousands of fish, and engrain horrible habits.

Don't blow it.  

Every dollar you spend on lessons now and every minute you spend practicing correctly will provide value for decades to come.  No rod, line, or time on fishing sites will provide anything comparable.  

   

 

  

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

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1 hour ago, numbskull said:

C.Crisp,

Most of us are self-taught casters.

Which is why most of us suck at casting.

We buy lots of expensive equipment and we catch some fish but no where near what we could if we had learned to cast correctly.

You are starting out and have a chance to do it right before you waste thousands of dollars, miss untold thousands of fish, and engrain horrible habits.

Don't blow it.  

Every dollar you spend on lessons now and every minute you spend practicing correctly will provide value for decades to come.  No rod, line, or time on fishing sites will provide anything comparable.  

Just because this perl of wisdom bears repeating. . .

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2 hours ago, Mike Oliver said:

Amen.

 

But the huge majority will never listen ,don’t want to listen and therefore will mostly embrace mediocrity.

 

Mike

I embrace it because I worked so hard to achieve it. 

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Casting a 4 then going to a 9 is like comparing a shop broom to a dusk broom. They are so different it’s not even close unless you consider the wording fly rod the only similarity. 
 

A 4 is forgiving, it’s light and the movements to cast don’t stress the arms shoulders and a simple flub is easily recovered.  The rod is light and the stroke doesn’t have to be as abrupt as a heavier rod would be. The arm movements of the larger rod are more extreme in the sense of your stop and go timing is greater, longer and faster. The rod weights more, the line weights more and the flies are larger more wind resistant. 
 

as you get into the larger sized rods the timing slows, it’s like hitting a wall your hand just stops movement. This is the rod hand, it just stops forward movements, it doesn't continue to travel, you can’t even let the rod tip drop. That added movements affect the end result which is the line and it’s reactions. Drop the tip a bit, the line slaps the water. The movements continue at the stop point the line looses is momentum, less distance and possibly folding line with the fly falling well short. 
 

your learn to load cast the rod using the remaining line still on the water to start the backcast, this gives you less false casts. Your learn to not pull that fly line up into the tip guide. It’s just wasted lost time to make your next cast. These help you get that next cast of quick during a fish feeding. There are only so many good shots at some fish. 
 

take your time learning this is not an overnight teaching device. If you become frustrated just walk away from it for a bit. Sit down relax and think of what is happening and what you are doing to get to that problem. 
 

I’ve learned some of my best lessons by watching. Believe me you will know when to watch someone and they have it correct. It’s easy to see someone that’s effortless and has a rhythm to the movements.

 

I’ve been fly fishing for every bit of 40+ years. I’ve fished a 2-12 weights. My arms, shoulders and back don’t hurt after a day of fly fishing or a week of it either. Your movements shouldn’t hurt you. I’ll still quarter myself at times to watch that backcast, what’s it doing?, why did I get a wind knot?, is the line dropping to fast to catch something? 
 

Your learn to release on your backcast because you just had a swirl/splash behind you. Casting on a beach with the wind in your face, turn yourself around and face the beach, release on that backcast, it works better sometimes. Your learn to lower your arm and pin that elbow to your waist, the cast changes and lowers your exposure to the wind. 
 

enjoy the new sport, it’s a blast from learning at the beginning to learning later too. 

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7 hours ago, JEFFSOD said:

 

What flyline are you currently fishing on your 9wt? 

Orvis Hydros Coldwater Intermediate WF9, 40' Head, 1.5"/sec

 

I'm convinced I need lessons and practice time, but I would at least like to try another line to see if I feel a difference.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

14 mins ago, C.Crisp said:

Orvis Hydros Coldwater Intermediate WF9, 40' Head, 1.5"/sec

 

I'm convinced I need lessons and practice time, but I would at least like to try another line to see if I feel a difference.

Ummm...yes; you have confirmed your need for lessons. Pulling a weighted line out of the water to make a cast is a special technique. If you change the line to a WF9F it will pick up easier; but you will not have learned how to cast a sinking line. Lots of folks use sinking lines in NC for stripers.

Edited by Ladyfish

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