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Wind Farms in NY Bight

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Roads in New Jersey are the most expensive to build in the whole country.  As much as 3 times as much as anywhere else.  By law they have to be built by Union labor.  And they aren't any better than roads anywhere else.

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11 mins ago, pakalolo said:

Broad brush there , as a small business owner we pay our people very well but there’s no way I’ll have terms of employment dictated by them. All three of your points are incorrect. 

Do you pay health care, pension and annuity? More than likely not. Of course you don’t want terms dictated by anyone but your self. Had my own business for 25 years, I get it. 

8 mins ago, pakalolo said:

The multi million dollar mansions on the East End are built with non union labor ,quality is unsurpassed. 

I’ve worked on multi billion dollar projects that an east end builder would be broke after the first week. Quality wise, I’m sure these are top notch homes. To say union workers are less superior in workmanship is a false. Seen lots of amazing work.

Last billion dollar project I was on.

 

7358BAB2-307B-41CB-8628-DB6C15737DC9.jpeg

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I have a friend involved on this wind project.  We spoke about this the last time I was out fishing with him. They have already laid a bunch of cable through Raritan Bay and some of  it will connect over in South Amboy/Sayreville area. I did ask about the blades and he said the new ones are all recyclable. Let me find out some more details and report back.

 

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You’re right Pakalolo. I was painting with a pretty broad brush which was unfair. I’ve worked at both union and non-union jobs over almost 40 years. In the non-union jobs I’ve worked for some good guys and quite a few bad ones. That being said, I’d still choose the union job given the choice. A lot depends on if you’re looking up or down!

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5 hours ago, fishinthedark said:

How about we build more jet engine turbine natural gas plants, a lot more serviceable and much longer shelf life and minimal startup costs compared to windfarms

I worked in that exact industry for over 20 years. Turbines require a pretty intensive maintenance schedule. We did a lot of dual-fuel powerpacks in S. America. It would take an awful lot of them to meet the power requirements of the US grid. Plus, you’re still burning fossil fuels so there’s no advantage there. Old technology won’t bring us forward to where we need to be.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Would like to hear from CWitek how this will disrupt fisheries.

Tons of boat traffic just bringing components to east coast.

Tons of boat traffic to install.

As scooby said,who picks up the dead birds.

This shouldn’t be a conversation about jobs or unions.

what are the consequences…..

 

Edited by olvart

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1 hour ago, olvart said:

Would like to hear from CWitek how this will disrupt fisheries.

Tons of boat traffic just bringing components to east coast.

Tons of boat traffic to install.

As scooby said,who picks up the dead birds.

This shouldn’t be a conversation about jobs or unions.

what are the consequences…..

 

We'll find out after it's too late.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Still won't compare to what I saw off the east coast of England (North Sea)...particularly off Great Yarmouth. That whole stretch is nothing but a big wind farm. And when we took a flight from Norwich UK to Amsterdam  to catch a flight back to Boston (Amsterdam is pretty much directly across the North Sea from Great Yarmouth), I could see these wind farms all the way across...It's obnoxious looking

Edited by albacized

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8 hours ago, pakalolo said:

Using union labor adds cost and time to a project, why would the consumer want that? 

Because consumers are also citizens and understand that EVERYONE needs to be able to provide for their family. It is to the America's benefit to have a  populace that earns a decent living. 

Marc

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6 hours ago, wrboz said:

You’re right Pakalolo. I was painting with a pretty broad brush which was unfair. I’ve worked at both union and non-union jobs over almost 40 years. In the non-union jobs I’ve worked for some good guys and quite a few bad ones. That being said, I’d still choose the union job given the choice. A lot depends on if you’re looking up or down!

Eggzactly! 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

On 1/14/2022 at 9:10 AM, wrboz said:

So should we build more coal-fired generation plants in the Ohio River Valley instead? 

 

No.  And this sort of logical fallacy thought process is a huge part of the problem.  "yeah, but I mean, its better than...?"

 

How about we just all use windup generators?  Thats better.  Right?   

 

Nuclear.  Nuclear was and still is the answer to our enormous energy demands, especially so with the move to more electric/battery tech products (cars, etc).

 

Nuclear will solve the main proiblems associated with collection, refining, transport, and emissions for another 100 years.

 

But the Econutbags in the US destroyed nuclear while it was a fledgling. 

Edited by 55555s

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22 mins ago, 55555s said:

 

No.  And this sort of logical fallacy thought process is a huge part of the problem.  "yeah, but I mean, its better than...?"

 

How about we just all use windup generators?  Thats better.  Right?   

 

Nuclear.  Nuclear was and still is the answer to our enormous energy demands, especially so with the move to more electric/battery tech products (cars, etc).

 

Nuclear will solve the main proiblems associated with collection, refining, transport, and emissions for another 100 years.

 

But the Econutbags in the US destroyed nuclear while it was a fledgling. 

 

 In Europe they have just moved nuclear and natural gas onto their "green" list of energies. Someone's waking up to realities of cost and efficiency. Likely they won't have to be subsidized by the governments because they make money right out of the gate.

 I believe there are new types of smaller nuclear power plants out there that use say liquified sodium or some such to cool them in stead of water, eliminating the steam plumes coming from the towers.

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16 hours ago, olvart said:

Would like to hear from CWitek how this will disrupt fisheries.

Tons of boat traffic just bringing components to east coast.

Tons of boat traffic to install.

As scooby said,who picks up the dead birds.

This shouldn’t be a conversation about jobs or unions.

what are the consequences…..

 

The fact is, we don't know.

 

There are projects going on right nowm including one off Montauk, trying to get somne idea of how fish movements might be affected.

 

There are big windfarms off Europe that don't seem to harm fish stocks, but so many European stocks are in bad shape that it might be hard to tell.  The studies that have been done here in the U.S. on the impacts of the structures themselves seem to indicate that some elasmobranchs may be affected--but not necessarily harmed--by the electric fields generated by the cables, but no other ill effets on sealife.  However, the noise created by the installation might--or might not--impact marine mammals.  The few installations off Block Island appear to attract fish; they are drawing heavy fishing boat traffic, including party boats from as far away as Montauk seeking big fluke, yet still seem to be producing enough fish to justify the crowds and the travel.  At the same time, a big wind farm could make it very difficult for some commercial vessels--trawlers and purse seiners, and maybe some gill netters--to operate.,  There is specualtion that the structures could create bottom habitat and aggregate fish in the same way as an oil rig or artificial reef, but that has yet to be confirmed.

 

My biggest concern is the impact of the turbine blades on neotropical migrants--then warblers, wrens, and other birds that generally migrate at night, and sometimes land on your boat, exhausted, on foggy fall mornings.  I suspect that they are going to take a significant hit.

 

Bottom line is that there are still many unknowns.

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3 hours ago, 55555s said:

 

No.  And this sort of logical fallacy thought process is a huge part of the problem.  "yeah, but I mean, its better than...?"

 

That was sarcasm 55555.

Nuclear power would definitely be a harder sell than wind farms though. It’s the ultimate NIMBY nightmare. Probably rightfully so given the history of accidents.

I recall several nuke plants being shut down in recent years. Not because of “econutbags”, but because the operators deemed the cost of maintenance, repairs, and upgrades too high. They never turned a profit and refused to continue throwing good money after bad.

When was the last time a nuke plant was built in the USA?

 

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On 1/14/2022 at 4:54 PM, BrianBM said:

This is a new technology and it has growing pains. I am "pro," so long as all the costs are well - detailed and the limitations are not concealed.

It’s not really new technology , wind farms have been in Europe since the 80’s. There is no real way to recycle the blades yet. Burying or grinding up and mixing in concrete. Also there is a turbine in NY Harbor already, it’s in Bayonne NJ. If you look up info on that mill you will see it hasn’t been operational in quite some time . Think it might have been operational for a year or two.  Hasn’t run in years to expensive to operated/ upkeep.

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