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Mass unveils new proof-of-vaccination website

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Just now, mikez2 said:

Context is everything. You edited out the part of my comment where I said "in the big picture...".

The sample size is huge. All around the world it's well documented, the odds are very much in your favor if you're vaccinated. It's really not a worthy argument to try to say otherwise. 

Sure, there might be exceptions that prove the rule but the odds are very much in your favor if you're vaccinated. 

 

I'm not even sure what your trying to argue. If you find the vaccine more objectionable than potentially being hospitalized the next time you get infected, more power to you.

I know I can't change your mind.

I didn’t edit in an effort to change context, and I understand we won’t change each other’s minds. We all wish this would go away so things would be normal again. 
 

Since I was a kid I heard people compare USA to Canada and Australia. I am very grateful to be an American. We have the right to disagree and even though we have some restrictions, we have freedoms that those countries don’t. 
 

I don’t want to forfeit any more freedoms. I am not anti vax, I am anti mandate. The virus has evolved quicker than the policies, regulations, mandates and recommendations. 

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43 mins ago, ged said:

It would be ideal if a domestic company used old school technology to produce a safe, effective traditional vaccine for $1-1.50 a dose.

 

If they started in SARS years ago they may even have a head start on the vaccine. 

 

Oh wait, someone did! India has approved it and put in an order. 
 

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2022/01/05/1070046189/a-texas-team-comes-up-with-a-covid-vaccine-that-could-be-a-global-game-changer

 

Yes, and it took more than a year longer to develop and get approved despite collecting considerably less clinical data than any of the U.S. vaccines. It is going to take even longer before sufficient quantities of distribution-ready product will be available due to longer required manufacturing time. That is the trade off that I highlighted in my earlier post. 

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Just now, jmei said:

Yes, and it took more than a year longer to develop and get approved despite collecting considerably less clinical data than any of the U.S. vaccines. It is going to take even longer before sufficient quantities of distribution-ready product will be available due to longer required manufacturing time. That is the trade off that I highlighted in my earlier post. 

Imagine if they had the financial support that Pfizer did? 

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1 min ago, ged said:

Imagine if they had the financial support that Pfizer did? 

Plenty of large, well-resourced companies (Sanofi, GlaxoSmithKline, Merck) did try to develop standard recombinant/inactivated vaccines. They all concluded that the mRNA and adenovirus vaccines were going to be approved more quickly and have stronger efficacy than traditional vaccines. 

 

Many countries with immense financial and political resources also developed recombinant/inactivated vaccines, including the Chinese CoronaVac and Sinopharm vaccines and the Indian Covaxin vaccine. There is a reason that no country with a choice between mRNA vaccines and traditional vaccines have preferred the latter. They are just not as effective. 

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2 mins ago, jmei said:

Plenty of large, well-resourced companies (Sanofi, GlaxoSmithKline, Merck) did try to develop standard recombinant/inactivated vaccines. They all concluded that the mRNA and adenovirus vaccines were going to be approved more quickly and have stronger efficacy than traditional vaccines. 

 

Many countries with immense financial and political resources also developed recombinant/inactivated vaccines, including the Chinese CoronaVac and Sinopharm vaccines and the Indian Covaxin vaccine. There is a reason that no country with a choice between mRNA vaccines and traditional vaccines have preferred the latter. They are just not as effective. 

How effective are the MRNA vaccines against the current virus? 

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24 mins ago, jmei said:

I’ve posted the data three or four times now. If you trust your very limited personal experience more than the extensive data that has been collected and analyzed by our best and brightest scientific and medical minds, well, I guess that says more about you than anything else. 

 

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1 min ago, z-man said:

What about these deer that are testing positive? Do they need a vax card? Masks, social distancing? Seriously though. How are they catching it. It’s not like humans are sneezing on them. 

I killed a few deer this year just because they may have been infected. My service to society. 

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1 hour ago, mikez2 said:

I'm still most interested in who was hospitalized and who has died.

All personal anecdotes aside, the data is pretty clear and there's a lot of it. In the big picture, you're less likely to be hospitalized and less likely to die if you get the vaccine. 

That's good enough for me.

95% people over 50.

 

The fact the vaccine doesn't stop the spread makes the mandates pointless. 

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47 mins ago, jmei said:

I’ve posted the data three or four times now. If you trust your very limited personal experience more than the extensive data that has been collected and analyzed by our best and brightest scientific and medical minds, well, I guess that says more about you than anything else. 

The problem here is that I know too many people, including myself, who have much different “limited experiences” than the extensive data.

 

My grandfather was hospitalized a few days after being vaccinated- falling ill with a mysterious sickness, he died a week and half later. Cause of death officially has nothing to do with the vaccine. There was no investigation conducted to determine if the vaccine had anything to do with his

death.


So, his death does not represent a data point in the “extensive data” regarding vaccine efficacy and risks. Based on my “limited experiences” I can only assume there are other stories exactly like this. Simple extrapolation.  
 

The medical professionals reviewing the data, they can only review what’s been given to them.

 

Case study: There are very bright and talented scientists that are staff members of the ASMFC, but the politically appointed board members control how the scientists utilize and show the data to serve their own interests. As a result, the striped bass population, and many other fish populations, have been in decline for over a decade. See where I’m going here?

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52 mins ago, Pickerel92 said:

The problem here is that I know too many people, including myself, who have much different “limited experiences” than the extensive data.

 

My grandfather was hospitalized a few days after being vaccinated- falling ill with a mysterious sickness, he died a week and half later. Cause of death officially has nothing to do with the vaccine. There was no investigation conducted to determine if the vaccine had anything to do with his

death.


So, his death does not represent a data point in the “extensive data” regarding vaccine efficacy and risks. Based on my “limited experiences” I can only assume there are other stories exactly like this. Simple extrapolation.  
 

The medical professionals reviewing the data, they can only review what’s been given to them.

 

Case study: There are very bright and talented scientists that are staff members of the ASMFC, but the politically appointed board members control how the scientists utilize and show the data to serve their own interests. As a result, the striped bass population, and many other fish populations, have been in decline for over a decade. See where I’m going here?

I’m so sorry for your loss. 
 

It’s actually quite difficult to prove causation in circumstances like this one. One of the best things that scientists can do is compare rates of adverse events in double-blind placebo-controlled trials and by observing rates of adverse events in vaccinated people and comparing to what you would expect based on natural history studies. Using those methods, scientists have determined that there are rare (less than 1 in 100,000) incidents of rare but serious adverse events like Guillain-Barré syndrome and blood clots associated with the J&J vaccine and rare incidents of myocarditis (swelling of the heart muscle) in young men with the Pfizer vaccine. But all evidence suggests those side effects remain rare and are in some cases manageable. 
 

Given the sheer number of vaccinations given, if there was even a rare association with increased risk of other serious injury or death, you’d see it pop up in the data. Fortunately, we haven’t really seen anything like that yet. 
 

I take the point re: ASMFC, but the quality of the science on vaccinations is orders of magnitude more sophisticated than fisheries science. There’s no equivalent to multi-thousand patient double-blind placebo-controlled clinical trials in fisheries science. 

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8 mins ago, shark lobster said:

I have one question about the vaccine and mandates 

phizer

cdc

j&j

all there thousands of employees are all exempt from getting the vaccines if they choose not to !

congress is exempt from getting the vaccine if they choose not to ! 
why? 

Not true. There is a federal employee vaccination mandate and each of the major vaccine producers (Pfizer, BioNTech, Moderna, J&J), as well as most other pharma/biotech companies, have adopted vaccine mandates. 
 

ADD: per a May 2021 survey, 100% of the Democratic congressional caucus in both the Senate and the House has been vaccinated. As you might imagine, Republican congressional vaccination rates are lower, particularly in the House. 

Edited by jmei
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