JCH

Big flies

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I was introduced to a new (to me) technique for striper fishing this year: basically finding fish on the bottom in 20’ of water with a fish finder, and sinking huge flies to entice the eat.  Really effective at finding big fish, if not the most exciting way to fish. 
 

In any case, I started tying 10”-12” flies to imitate adult bunker / Atlantic herring. I’ve landed on two - Beast Fleye, and a 3D fly using slinky fiber or Farrar blends.  The key is profile and pulse. 
 

I vastly prefer the latter. It’s much, much easier to tie, pushes a ton of water, and I feel they cast much better because they retain zero water - the beast fleye feels like a wet sock.  
 

Curious if the board agrees or has other suggestions for other patterns. 
 

5C31FA14-0746-414B-89A5-BEA52D93FC7A.jpeg.d83bb40c4ea9b44beaf6da243d668cf6.jpeg

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I too have been fishing this way too  and I totally agree with you.  Being able to cast these flies the farther the better  when you are counting it down and the beast style in my opinion  is way harder to get distance.    Benefits of the action of the beast fly don't exceed the benefits of more distance with the Farrar/Flatwing styles.   And I think they sink quicker.   

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JCH,

 

Unfortunately still have consideable issues with the stroke (AVM) communications so if you don't mind, can you be more specific for me of the "profile and pulse" that you mention below ?

 

Also, see you use either the Slinky of Farrar materials.    Looking at these photos, well done by the way, for these lengths how much do you need to periodically run a comb through your fly to keep them messy or tangled up seeing it's synthetics.  (assuming you've already used these flying in the water).

 

Thanks,

HT

                   By the way when my son stayed with me during my early return to home he gave me up one of the "Flyer Tester" as a quick gag since there really wasn't anything I needed.   Set this up to play around with and actually realized makes a difference.      Made up a fly without "eyes' and also one with glued on eyes.   The fly less eyes ran nice and true, hook to the bottom and the fly with eyes constantly flyed sideways back to back.   The eyes are so light on hand prior to sticking  in that I couldn't even feel them in hand.    A little lead at the top of the hook bend makes all the change in the world. 

 

61b4dec20952a_withouteye.jpg.582c5efb4797feb9aeccbe19a026add1.jpg

 

61b4debf43a0f_witheye.jpg.59845ea87b1529438a3a6ddc3db28eb7.jpg

 

4 hours ago, JCH said:

I was introduced to a new (to me) technique for striper fishing this year: basically finding fish on the bottom in 20’ of water with a fish finder, and sinking huge flies to entice the eat.  Really effective at finding big fish, if not the most exciting way to fish. 
 

In any case, I started tying 10”-12” flies to imitate adult bunker / Atlantic herring. I’ve landed on two - Beast Fleye, and a 3D fly using slinky fiber or Farrar blends.  The key is profile and pulse. 
 

I vastly prefer the latter. It’s much, much easier to tie, pushes a ton of water, and I feel they cast much better because they retain zero water - the beast fleye feels like a wet sock.  
 

Curious if the board agrees or has other suggestions for other patterns. 
 

5C31FA14-0746-414B-89A5-BEA52D93FC7A.jpeg.d83bb40c4ea9b44beaf6da243d668cf6.jpeg

 

Edited by HillTop

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HT, I don't think the eyes is a weight issue, but rather a hydrodynamic one.  Good argument for no eyes or Jungle Cock, keep it in the feather family.  Can we see a long shot of the testing set up?

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6 mins ago, Oakman said:

HT, I don't think the eyes is a weight issue, but rather a hydrodynamic one.  Good argument for no eyes or Jungle Cock, keep it in the feather family.  Can we see a long shot of the testing set up?

I don’t know,  adult bunker for example  often turn on their sides ( think when you see the flash) as long as it’s a periodic roll and not a steady sideways swim I think it would provide a more natural presentation. Those type of tanks are great to show action and orientation  with a steady current in its face  but actual fishing, for me at least, involves up or cross current presentations with twitches and pauses. How the fly “swims” in those situations can be different than directly directly down current. That can only be observed through real world test swims. All the same it’s an interesting observation that I would not have considered all other things being equal.

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5 mins ago, Dave T. said:

I don’t know,  adult bunker for example  often turn on their sides ( think when you see the flash) as long as it’s a periodic roll and not a steady sideways swim I think it would provide a more natural presentation. Those type of tanks are great to show action and orientation  with a steady current in its face  but actual fishing, for me at least, involves up or cross current presentations with twitches and pauses. How the fly “swims” in those situations can be different than directly directly down current. That can only be observed through real world test swims. All the same it’s an interesting observation that I would not have considered all other things being equal.

Fair point

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2 hours ago, Oakman said:

HT, I don't think the eyes is a weight issue, but rather a hydrodynamic one.  Good argument for no eyes or Jungle Cock, keep it in the feather family.  Can we see a long shot of the testing set up?

 

Just great :( ...unfortunately my head not working this day I probably won't remember "hydrodynamic"  for weeks to come.

 

I've always like using eyes but understand it probably is more for the buyer than the fisher..... will probably never now unless some college professor does a doctorate degree.  Until then I'll go with eyes.

 

Long shot of the "fly tester" kit to look at.     If I get really bored I'll get some Guppies next to my desk fly lamp and play a little classical music.

HT

 

 

 

Edited by HillTop

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3 mins ago, HillTop said:

 

Just great :( ...unfortunately my head not working this day I probably won't remember "hydrodynamic"  for weeks to come.

 

I've always like using eyes but understand it probably is more for the buyer than the fisher..... will probably never now unless some college professor does a doctorate degree.  Until then I'll go with eyes.

 

Long shot of the "fly tester" kit to look at.     If I get really bored I'll get some Guppies next to my desk fly lamp and play a little classic music.

HT

 

 

 

Hilltop: What a great fly tester! Def. looks like a baitfish! You are amazing with your inventions. 

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18 mins ago, flysully said:

Hilltop: What a great fly tester! Def. looks like a baitfish! You are amazing with your inventions. 

 

Well good day !! hope you and Ron are doing well.        Tough day today and can hardly communicate today but just last week I'm back to work full time and my brain is shot.    Good think I'm the owner :)  Slept 12 nights last night and still tired.... I'm staying with it though.

Actually the Fly Tester gadget was designed and sold by someone on the web.    Scott at Bears Den had them a year ago and my son saw them this week and got one.   Fun to play around with.

HT

Edited by HillTop

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Always love to see posts from you, Hilltop! 

Keep on being strong.

Happy holidays to you and your family who are always so supportive, as we are, as well, here on SOL. XOXOX

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The benefit of 100% synthetic flies, and in part the reason for development of the materials, is that they shed water almost immediately once out of the water, so a 8 or 9 wt rod will easily cast a large synthetic, Conversely, a 10 or 12 wt is required to throw a wet sock, or worse, a wet half-a-chicken fly.

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I fish these flies on 9 or 10 wts, depending on the wind and my mood.  I know people that throw them on 8 wts.  The important bit is the let the fly get down: cast out upstream and then flop the rest of your running line out of the rod tip, all the way to the backing.  Count to 20, ponder the imponderables.  Once the line straightens, bump it back to the boat with plenty of pauses.

 

@HillTop - I'm sorry you're not feeling well, but I do have to say that your posts are perfectly cogent.  Regarding your questions, by profile I mean the shape or outline of the fly.  Long and skinny doesn't cut it - has to be bulky and wide.  By pulse, I mean how the fly puffs up on the pause.  I think the beast fly does this particularly well.  These flies thin out as you pull them through the water, and swell up on the pause, my suspicion is that this swelling triggers the bite.  (I wonder if there would be a way to rig your fly tester - which is very cool - so that it pulses water at the fly, instead of a continuous stream, to mimic the erratic retrieve.)

 

Regarding weight, I do wrap the shank of the hook with thick lead wire to help them sink.  If I'm feeling up to it, I'll stack small sections of lead wire on the underside of the shank as a keel - like the Sedotti slammer - to help it track straight.  I'm not convinced it's necessary; like @Dave T. whenever I see an injured bunker, it's lolling and flopping around, irresistible to a big bass.

 

Regarding fouling, I find it necessary to comb it out only after a bite.  Some people use lice combs or dog brushes - both of which work well.  I've found the best to be a wet hair brush, like the one pictured below.  (It's remarkable how many of my 5 YOs hair products I have coopted for use in fishing - her hair clips are a must-have for fly tying.)

 

signature-wet-dry-brush-7392473_800x.jpeg.92dd878e529dfbbbe7e5943b8d15c41f.jpeg

 

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JCH,

 

Thank You.  I'm trying extra hard to communicate the best that I can.  These few threads of only a few sentences usually take me up to 45+ minutes or more to try to remember particular words and then read and read again to see if what I've texted makes sense before I finally text.  I'm making some help with two therapists doctor twice a week.    They're telling me I still need at least another 6 months :(

 

Anyway, it could be the crazy way I'm seeing this this but in your last thread you read:  

 

Long and skinny doesn't cut it - has to be bulky and wide.  By pulse, I mean how the fly puffs up on the pause.  I think the beast fly does this particularly well.  These flies thin out as you pull them through the water, and swell up on the pause, my suspicion is that this swelling triggers the bite. "

 

Probably my current understanding AVM issues interpred as  " Long and skinny doesn't cut it.....has to be bulky and wide"  which to me I think a Beast Flye "is long and skinny" and "Bulk and Wide" would referr to a 3D Fly.  But then you are saying the Beast Fly does this particularly well, which seems to be the opposite design and what you prefer.     

 

JCH,  also per the flys you have photos above can you tell me what you are using for your hook type and size ?

 

Thanks,

Chuck

 

 

 

 

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