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Radioactive water into CCB. Are they kidding!

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, mikez2 said:

I would certainly not agree that "more and more" the trend is to dump waste in the water. 

 

In fact the opposite is true. 

 

Historically everything went in the rivers or ocean.

Starting with the Clean Water Act in 1972, the trend has absolutely been to dump less and treat more.

 

Every decade since has shown more and stricter laws. More treatment, stricter regs, more oversight. 

 

Virtually every major river system and numerous other water bodies have watchdog groups that monitor water quality. They go out and collect water samples monthly. They take their kayaks right up the effluent channel of the treatment plants. They pressure legislators to pass even more regs such as the wastewater notification law last year.

 

The fact is, the water quality everywhere is better than it has been in any of our lifetimes. Even nasty rivers like the Merrimack, Nashua and Blackstone are in the best shape they've been in probably 100 years.

Boston harbor is another example. 

 

I'm old enough to remember when all those water bodies were horrid, dead, stinky places nobody would ever swim and few fish survived. 

Now thousands regularly swim in them and numerous fish species are returning.

 

For whatever reason, telling stories about improvement in water quality isn't news worthy.

Instead, the reactionary, sensational news sources like CCT to, name just one, find it works better to get people all stirred up with horror stories. 

People read the sensational headlines and don't bother looking any further. 

Hence the false perception that "more and more" the "first" choice is to dump waste in the river.

 

None of this should be interpreted as me saying it's OK to dump radioactive waste or any other pollution. 

I'm just trying to use my experience and training to provide a different perspective. 

 

 

 

I don't speak for anyone else but your perspective seems well established as someone who:

 

A. likes to insult the intelligence of those being cautious with environmental waste dumping.

B. likes to dismiss concerns because newspapers try and sell newspapers.

C. likes to point out that it's been worse in the past so just accept what for profit polluters want to do nowadays.

 

We dummies just can't get behind dumping sewerage and radioactive nuclear waste in the most pristine and sensitive areas as a means to improve the corporate bottom line. You were considering drinking some of the MMA discharge to prove your point, maybe we can rack up a line of delicious drinks for you. How's that George Thorogood song go?

 

One stink pot, one nuke shot, and one beer. :beers:

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Edited by Ba Ba Buoy

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6 hours ago, Jonesy02719 said:

I couldn’t read the Globe article because of the paywall, but did read the article on CC Times.

 

The headline is a bit sensational, as you need to read most of the way through the article to learn that their discharges would meet federal EPA NPDES (National Pollution Discharge Elimination System) standards.  
 

Still, I think every alternative should be considered before dumping it into the ocean.

If you took a pint of this EPA NPDES standard meeting discharge and dumped it in the Mass State House rotunda They would evacuate the building, guys in hazmat suits would be swarming the place, they'd pull-up the marble floor, pay someone from Staten Island to 'properly' dispose of it in a federally regulated hazardous waste site in Nevada, you'd be arrested, imprisoned and fined until you were penniless.

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For the record I think dumping radioactive waste into Cape Cod Bay is a really bad idea. 

 

I hope it never happens. 

 

I hope Ma DEP and/or federal EPA prevents it.

 

To the best I can determine from a quick review of the recent stories, it's not a Done Deal, despite the recent headlines claim to the contrary. 

 

But I hope it never happens. 

I think it's a bad idea. 

I hope it never happens. :why:

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Posted (edited)

Just curious...: Do you all REALLY think a State - particularly Massachusetts, is going to let a private company dump radioactive waste into the Bay..??  Really? 

 

  Is it radioactive water; or, water that was used to cool the radioactive rods (never having touched or been contaminated by them)?  

 

  Let me go poke around and head some and if I am wrong, I'll buy Bob G a beer when next up there.  

 

Just read some and need to read some more.  The level they are talking is 100 millirems, roughly two mammograms worth and a fraction of a CT scan.   Yeah....so far I have no issue with it.  You get multiples of that simply on a routine flight.  

Edited by JimP

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2 mins ago, capequahog said:

Pretty sure I read the dumping is off the table today somewhere 

The article said that Holtec contacted Keating’s office and said it wasn’t a done deal (but was still under consideration).

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/12/04/metro/keating-pilgrim-owner-backs-off-plan-discharge-radioactive-water-into-cape-cod-bay-early-next-year/?outputType=amp

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11 mins ago, Jonesy02719 said:

The article said that Holtec contacted Keating’s office and said it wasn’t a done deal (but was still under consideration).

 

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/12/04/metro/keating-pilgrim-owner-backs-off-plan-discharge-radioactive-water-into-cape-cod-bay-early-next-year/?outputType=amp

 

^

 

I'd wager its a threat of sorts.  "Help us with funding or scratch our backs over here or there, or shucks, we might push to have this dumped and you know its technically within limits, so... oh well."

 

It does nt appear to be fuel rods (worse) nor cooling water (no biggie) , but waste water.    Would be a sham eto dump it there.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, JimP said:

 

 

Just read some and need to read some more.  The level they are talking is 100 millirems, roughly two mammograms worth and a fraction of a CT scan.   

But if you dump a pint of it in the statehouse would it be a hazardous waste drill that gets you thrown in jail?:)

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8 hours ago, VitaminDee said:

Hopefully creating some monster fish in the process.

that glow in the dark. :squid: 

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45 mins ago, BrianBM said:

As an aside, I wonder if the water from Fukushima has been detected locally.

You made me curious so I did a quick Google search. Not exhaustive by any means. Just a quickie.

 

Looks like they haven't even been looking for it in the US Pacific since 2015.

I couldn't find anything at all about it from the Atlantic. 

 

From the EPA: 

https://www.epa.gov/radiation/where-can-i-find-most-current-information-about-fukushima-and-radiation-levels

 

"Ocean Monitoring - In late 2015, ocean monitoring by Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI), a marine research organization, detected very small amounts of radioactivity from the 2011 Fukushima incident 1,600 miles west of San Francisco. Radiation levels in the seawater were minute and pose no health risk. The WHOI is no longer monitoring ocean water for radioactivity after the Fukushima incident. To read the 2015 press release, visit Higher Levels of Fukushima Cesium Detected OffshoreEXITEXIT EPA WEBSITE at whoi.edu."

 

According to a link found on the EPA site above, https://www.oregon.gov/oha/PH/HealthyEnvironments/RadiationProtection/RadiationMonitoring/Pages/waterdata.aspx

the state of Oregon has conducted their own sampling of their coast and as of 2017 determined;

 

"Based on the results collected to date, there is no scientific evidence that Japan Tsunami marine debris presents a radiation health concern."

 

Seems like quite a stretch to think anything from that event has had an effect on the western Atlantic. 

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17 hours ago, JimP said:

Just curious...: Do you all REALLY think a State - particularly Massachusetts, is going to let a private company dump radioactive waste into the Bay..??  Really? 

 

  Is it radioactive water; or, water that was used to cool the radioactive rods (never having touched or been contaminated by them)?  

 

  Let me go poke around and head some and if I am wrong, I'll buy Bob G a beer when next up there.  

 

Just read some and need to read some more.  The level they are talking is 100 millirems, roughly two mammograms worth and a fraction of a CT scan.   Yeah....so far I have no issue with it.  You get multiples of that simply on a routine flight.  

State of ma pollutes at will. The private company will have to find right palms to grease

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1 hour ago, Dave588 said:

State of ma pollutes at will. The private company will have to find right palms to grease

Do you have any factual basis for these comments? Or is that just your gut feeling? 

 

From where I sit, in the pollution business (sorry to "talk shop" but this is the topic at hand), the state of MA is one of the strictest and most difficult states to pollute in. 

Ma DEP is a pain in the ass. They're all over any business that might discharge pollution. Their regs exceed Federal EPA in most cases. They're some of the strictest in the nation. They do regular inspections. They do surprise inspections. 

The cost of meeting the regs is huge. The cost of getting caught exceeding the regs is worse.

Many businesses have left Massachusetts simply to avoid the cost of meeting DEP regs.

If there were palms that could be greased, it'd be cheaper. 

 

Then there's the public watchdog groups. The River Watchers. Citizen environmental groups that conduct their own monthly analysis of water quality and monitoring of any source of pollution. 

They have the ear of the press. Papers like the Globe and CCT love to stoke the flames of environmental indignation. 

Even if some company or town found a corrupt DEP official to bribe, the river watchers would catch them polluting immediately and splash it all over the headlines. Public outcry would be epic.

 

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54 mins ago, mikez2 said:

Do you have any factual basis for these comments? Or is that just your gut feeling? 

 

From where I sit, in the pollution business (sorry to "talk shop" but this is the topic at hand), the state of MA is one of the strictest and most difficult states to pollute in. 

Ma DEP is a pain in the ass. They're all over any business that might discharge pollution. Their regs exceed Federal EPA in most cases. They're some of the strictest in the nation. They do regular inspections. They do surprise inspections. 

The cost of meeting the regs is huge. The cost of getting caught exceeding the regs is worse.

Many businesses have left Massachusetts simply to avoid the cost of meeting DEP regs.

If there were palms that could be greased, it'd be cheaper. 

 

Then there's the public watchdog groups. The River Watchers. Citizen environmental groups that conduct their own monthly analysis of water quality and monitoring of any source of pollution. 

They have the ear of the press. Papers like the Globe and CCT love to stoke the flames of environmental indignation. 

Even if some company or town found a corrupt DEP official to bribe, the river watchers would catch them polluting immediately and splash it all over the headlines. Public outcry would be epic.

 

I mean the state doesnt mind dumping their own pollution. And i know theres more than two sides on issues.

One state office on river was caught running raw sewage into water. But i have heard that was a printed opinion.

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