pattycakes

Recoil guides on surf rods?

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Im thinking about jumping in and wrapping my first surf stick and was wondering what your opinions of recoil guides on surf rods are. I know there are some older threads on the topic but I was curious if anybody has experimented further with them. The reasons I would be considering them for the build is I want a pretty durable rod and don't want to be worried about cracked or broken inserts and they seem to be more lightweight then most guides. On paper as I think about the build they seem like a good idea but I am unsure if there are better options for what I am trying to accomplish. 

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36 mins ago, Billy 40 said:

SMH. durable and recoil in teh same sentence is comedy

I was thinking that because I have seen videos of them being bent down to the blank and returning to normal. What types of durability issues do you find them having and what would you recommend as an alternative? 

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4 hours ago, pattycakes said:

What types of durability issues do you find them having

 

They groove.

 

 

recoil groove 03.jpg

recoil groove 02.jpg

recoil groove 01.jpg

Edited by ZAFisher

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The hardness of Recoil guides is 200 on the Vickers scale virtually the same as bare stainless, hard chrome is 600, ceramics start at around 1100 and go up from there. Sand, water, braid to capture everything in a matrix and saw it all through your soft guides, no surprises here. Even freshwater rods used in much cleaner çonditions have the same problem, especially in the tip tops.

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On 12/1/2021 at 7:14 AM, pattycakes said:

Thanks. That is defiantly an issue. 

Not an issue when recoil guides are properly used on fly rods.

For surf rods you should be looking for Titanium Hilo guides and be using  mono line in the 50 to 80 lb range.

 

History of Hilo guides

https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=5188.0

 

The guides go under several names. and are used by Shimano, Okuma, and Nitro. Possibly others.

From the Shimano website:

"Shimano Tallus Ulua rods were built especially for the Hawaii market. These rods were designed to be lightweight and strong to catch that Ulua of a lifetime. These fish (in the same family as jacks and pompano) have a well deserved reputation for being fierce fighters. Shimano TC4 construction material, along with well placed wire coil guides and our comfortable-yet-durable diamond wrap grip, provides the power needed to land trophy-sized fish from the beach, rocks or cliffs, whether you're on the Big Island, Maui or Oahu."

<Clarification: Ulua are GT.>

 

Searches on stainless steel hilo guides and titanium hilo guides will provide additional information.

 

If you really desire coil style guides for a surf rod, you may need to have them custom made from titanium. About 25 years ago I saw stainless steel Hilo style guides with grooves. (perhaps the wrong grade of metal was used ?)

 

You could take the easy way and use guides with stainless steel rings. They are available from Pac Bay (Minima guides) and SeaGuide. For SeaGuide go to Rod Builders Warehouse home page and select guides then under filters select stainless steel rings. You will find about 6 different guides with stainless steel rings. For Pac Bay you will need to go the the Fish Pac Bay home page and download a catalog.   

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A few problems with the above post, stainless and titanium are soft, therefore they groove, hard chrome is three time harder on the Vickers scale, but that is misleading as the scale isn't linear, it measures things exponentially as it goes up like many other scales of measurement. Chromium will do the job till the thin film is worn through than you just have a stainless, soft guide. All the stainless ring guides mentioned above have some kind of harder, slicker layer on top to reduce wear over time, reduction in weight is their selling point. Because they are softer they don't fracture as easily, but step on one and there is no benefit.

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I did use a set of conventional pacbay guides back in the day.  Titanium coated wire guides. Reminded me of mildrum guides. Lighter weight metal.  Held up hauling fish onto bridges with mono for years.  They did at that time have wife spinning guide sets. I'd try them for sure if I could track them down.  Bought them at Bogans in Brielle.

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