TopStriperAngler

Need Stradic Heaviness Diagnosis Ideas

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Reel Maintenance Peoples, 

Have Stradic FK that has a heavy feeling under load. It feels totally fine when spinning the handle off the rod. But when under load, reeling in a plug of any size, there is a heaviness. It's not necessarily a tightness. It's more of just like retrieving a plug involves more effort in turning the handle and just feels heavy.

 

Here's what I have done trying to solve problem, basically without resolving issue: 

 

1) brand new bearings and brand new drive and pinion gears--from Shimano. 

2) greased the gears liberally and then tried removing grease

3) removed shims, currently have just one thick silver colored shim

4) cleaned the main shaft, making sure no grease on it, and oiled it

5) inspected main shaft for a bend of some kind using straight edge

 

While these efforts have resulted in some lightening, it hasn't solved it. 

 

So now I'm trying to think of other things to try. Any ideas? 

 

Right now the reel is heavy enough that it's not worth fishing. 

 

Thanks!

 

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I overlubed my FL. First I added a shim and some Yamaha blue marine grease to the main & pinion to eliminate handle slop. It worked well, although it d give a slightly heavier feel. 
 

Then, since I already went that far, I guess I figured why not and decided to “waterproof” for expected heavy splashing and most likely some unintended dunks. I lubed everywhere and now it feels like a bulldozer. 
 

I’m leaving it that way until it drives me crazy and then my plan will be:
 

Check the rotor nut is properly tightened- not overtightened. Remove the majority of parts & bearings. (Except the godd@mn AR clutch.)

 

Degrease with a solvent like WD40 and a rag. Then wash with soapy water. do the same for the interior of the body. 
 

Use reel oil on everything but just to wipe it down. Put reel oil into the bearings and reassemble with no real grease for the most part - just some oil but no excess reel oil. Make sure the parts are not overtightened. Check to confirm but it should be free spinning by then. 
 

If so, you’ll still have to go back & deal with lightly greasing and I suggest not going with blue Yamaha.
 

If it’s still heavy, take it somewhere that is known for their reel doctoring - at least that’s probably what I’ll do. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Eric, 

Thanks for the response. Is the heaviness bad enough that its not fun to fish the reel? 

 

I put yamaha blue on the new pinion and drive gear. I didn't put that much on it but it got onto the main shaft. I did try removing most of the grease and cleaning off the main shaft. It might be interesting for you to just clean off the main shaft and oil it. I wonder if there would be any noticeable change. 

 

I will try the reel dry at some point to see how it feels without any grease. 

 

 

I've been tightening the rotor past finger tight only far enough to allow the rotor nut lock plate screwholes to line up with the holes in the rotor. 

Edited by TopStriperAngler

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You mentioned it was ony heavy when retrieving a plug?

Check your line roller: wrap a length of braid around it twice and then see-saw pull.

Compare to other reels in your collection

 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Hi ZA, 

Thanks for reply. 

 

That's right. Only feels heavy with a load on the line. Any size plug basically has the feeling even little 3 inchers. You cast out and its a light feeling until you get tight to the plug and then a definite heaviness appears. Good idea about line roller--I checked it its working. I've been through the Stradic line roller bearing seize up thing a few times and while it would get loud and emit a vibration at times the reel did not get heavy on me but that's a good thing to look at.  

 

The other reels I've compared it to are Ultegra XTC, Spheros SW Offshore (2014 model Spheros that's sealed), and a cheapo Okuma Caymus. All of these feel fine and acceptable and noticeably don't have the sudden heaviness appear when under any load.

 

 

One thing I need to try is remove the rubber rotor nut seal and try it without that. 

 

  

Edited by TopStriperAngler

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On 9/25/2021 at 2:37 PM, TopStriperAngler said:

Hi ZA, 

Thanks for reply. 

 

That's right. Only feels heavy with a load on the line. Any size plug basically has the feeling even little 3 inchers. You cast out and its a light feeling until you get tight to the plug and then a definite heaviness appears. Good idea about line roller--I checked it its working. I've been through the Stradic line roller bearing seize up thing a few times and while it would get loud and emit a vibration at times the reel did not get heavy on me but that's a good thing to look at.  

 

The other reels I've compared it to are Ultegra XTC, Spheros SW Offshore (2014 model Spheros that's sealed), and a cheapo Okuma Caymus. All of these feel fine and acceptable and noticeably don't have the sudden heaviness appear when under any load.

 

 

One thing I need to try is remove the rubber rotor nut seal and try it without that. 

 

  

I just broke down the FL last Friday again. I removed most of the blue grease. Reassembled. Me still stubbornly trying to “seal it” with grease anywhere of concern. Still stiff. 
 

Tried a bunch of little experiments. Handle on without the rotor, turns fine. Rotor on without the rotor nut. Fine. Seems pretty certain that it’s not within the body or the AR. (I burned an hour having to put that back together after I messed up the “upside down” trick. But it’s definitely in perfect condition.)

 

So, it’s above the AR. Kinda maybe above the rotor, fairly sure. 
 

Tried rotor nut loose. Still fine. Put everything back together and bam! Back to being stiff - especially to start. 
 

Removed the rubber seal from the rotor nut and realized I greased it under there (trick used with the 2016 Nasci.) Took that grease off and it’s like butter. Almost. 
 

Put the seal back on with that cover plate and it’s still fine. 
 

I wonder if it was getting to the point of being so crammed with grease in all the major places that the up down movement of the main shaft was getting “vacuum sealed” up or down. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Glad to hear you were successful getting back to the nearly butter point. And it's interesting to learn that the yamalube performs to your satisfaction. I put it on my Spheros SW 5000 and it didn't stiffen it up. So that's good. 

 

I wonder if grease on the main shaft has a pronounced effect on stiffness. I tried regreasing everything today including the main shaft and it got really heavy. 

 

Then I tried your degreasing and using just reel oil on the gears idea and that's definitely made the FK as light as it has felt so far. Great idea hardly took any time to do--I should have done it as a first step to get a baseline idea of lightness for the reel! 

 

Now I'm wondering if this is just a case of me being used to the extremely light turning Spheros which is a low gear reel and the FK being a sort of stiffer reel due either to its worm drive or it being a higher gear reel. 

 

Maybe its just a matter of getting used to it...like maybe just reeling to fast.

 

Looking forward to this Spheros SW A 6000 becoming available.    

Edited by TopStriperAngler

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Hmmm...well sort of a twist here. I took a closer look at the schematic and discovered I'm missing a washer that sits on the pinion beneath the rotor ring and above the AR assembly. 

 

Crap!

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, TopStriperAngler said:

Hmmm...well sort of a twist here. I took a closer look at the schematic and discovered I'm missing a washer that sits on the pinion beneath the rotor ring and above the AR assembly. 

 

Crap!

 

 

 

Are you sure you have that order right? Washer on top of the pinion? Do you mean on top of the pinion bearing? I haven’t looked at the schematic for the fk before responding but I think there’s a ball bearing on each end of the pinion including one right below the AR. I know there’s a little bearing at the very bottom of the pinion. 

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By the way, I doubt that the gear ratio has anything to do with the feel. I have a 16 Nasci 5k with same rough inches per turn as the stradic (all are “XG” ex high gear) so the gearing ratios are very similar. That nasci has been maintained but also abused and it’s still as free spinning a reel as I’ve ever handled. It’s not nearly as smooth or refined as the Stradic FL but the speedy free spin feel is crazy good for fishing it in salt over six seasons. (16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21)

 

I did double back & add grease to that in all the same places as the FL and it’s definitely slowed down & heavier but not as much as the Stradic. However, it’s not sealed really at the side plates, not a tight seal, and the top of the rotor seal is just the rubber washer. So, it’s not apples to apples. 
 

Anyone fishing the FK or FL looking for smoothest fastest spin, you could almost definitely remove the rubber washer from the rotor nut area and get a lighter feel. (Probably best only in FW conditions.)

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Thanks for the input on high gear reels. I ordered the washer. Gonna get this thing running right!  

 

I guess one of the lessons from this is check and check again so I went back to schematic: this missing washer goes onto the pinion gear after all the AR assembly and the retainer plate that holds the AR in place. The only other things that go on the pinion after it are the rotor ring and then the rotor. 

 

 

 

 

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That's it @Handi. I didn't know what to call the roller clutch inner tube. The roller clutch is all one piece in the schematic and doesn't denote the terms for the parts of the whole assembly. Am I correct in referring to the roller clutch as the antireverse? Synonymous? 

 

Do you think that shim washer on top of the inner tube's absence could play a role in the reel being a bit heavy under load? The only effect I can figure its absence would have is the rotor and rotor ring would sit a little bit deeper in the seal but it looks like the seal seals to the circumfirence of the rotor ring so that shouldn't have effect on heavier reeling feeling right?

 

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23 hours ago, TopStriperAngler said:

That's it @Handi. I didn't know what to call the roller clutch inner tube. The roller clutch is all one piece in the schematic and doesn't denote the terms for the parts of the whole assembly. Am I correct in referring to the roller clutch as the antireverse? Synonymous? 

 

Do you think that shim washer on top of the inner tube's absence could play a role in the reel being a bit heavy under load? The only effect I can figure its absence would have is the rotor and rotor ring would sit a little bit deeper in the seal but it looks like the seal seals to the circumfirence of the rotor ring so that shouldn't have effect on heavier reeling feeling right?

 

That clutch is sometimes called the roller clutch or roller bearing. Antireverse or AR or AR clutch. 
 

That shim may actually be stuck to the bottom of the little coreprotect cup that sits on top of it. (Purposely or not, it’s seemingly part of that cup thing on my Nascis which use the same stuff for the AR and the AR waterproofing. )

 

These are typically really thin shims and as I have come to understand them, they’re must often used to control the spaces between parts within the reel body. The tolerances are almost never that tight or temperamental above the body to make me blame a missing or even an extra shim in that area. But I would definitely try it. I have tried similar myself. 

 

(And I admit that I’m not sure why they put one there where it doesn’t fit the description I just gave. Also, I’m curious if it’s one of the typical shims from the innards of the common reel which are like brass shavings they’re so thin. )

 

I doubt that the heavy feeling is coming from that spot unless the shim missing is combined with an overtightened rotor nut AND the tolerance under that area are tighter than I would’ve expected. All of which are possible. 
 

I would try spinning it with the rotor nut removed and the rotor just balanced on the pinion. No rubber seals in place. 
 

If it’s the AR itself, that gets tricky. They’re such a PITA to reassemble. I have been tempted to hold the reel sideways and pour rubbing alcohol in there swirl it around and pour it back out.


(You wouldn’t want that cup to get alcohol on it and that means holding your finger or an object against the clutch cylinder because it can slide out and then you’re stuck with reassembly or ordering a new one.)
 

I don’t know if that alcohol bath would even clean up oil or grease or if that’s a likely explanation to begin with. That’s partly why I looked elsewhere for my answer and all those little tests pointed to sealing the shaft. 
 

You may be looking at a complete tear down or send it somewhere for service. 

 

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