Oakman

Flip Pallot heresy?

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47 posts in this topic

49 mins ago, DAQ said:

The theory is fine but the application is not practical for me. I don't think I will ever buy a line without welded loops again, they are just too convenient for what I do.  

Way more convenient as your eyes get older also.

Cabo 

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I have a hard time accepting what Flip has to say about anything as any thing less than gospel.  What I dont do much of is anything technically new during the season....moreover in september. Needless to say I'll be adding this to my winter list of things to do.   I never had, nor do I hold many mentors in life but Flip was high on the short list.  Wish i knew him.

Edited by DeepBlue85

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16 hours ago, Cabo2005 said:

I loved  watching Walkers Cay.

Cabo

I’ve been watching episodes on UTube. Great show, I’m a big fan of Flip as well. 

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For years I never used loops of any sort in Saltwater(Keys), always used a little longer butt ,then leader/tippet. Freshwater, I use a braided type loop connector to leader, then tippet.  The more irregular obstacles on line catches more crap, grass, smeg, algae.. I  just don't like the look of factory in the water.

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12 hours ago, Capt.Castafly said:

My formula for saltwater fly fishing connections.

Used this method for over 55 years. Never had a failure. 

Use nothing but 30 lbs. leader material, can be monofilament  or fluorocarbon connected to the fly line.

A good length to cut is three feet.

If you go any larger than 30 lbs. test, the larger diameter will not tighten enough around the fly line effectively.

In that case there will be slippage and failure.  

Make sure you cut off the end of the fly line clean about 1/2 inch.

Tie a nail knot of no more than 6 coils. Any more, the inside coils will not tighten sufficiently. This will cause failure.

Lubricate and pull the ends, use pliers on the tag end.

There should be enough on the other side to wrap around your hand.

Pull tight as you can.  Tie a perfection loop on the open end.

All done the length might be close to a foot.   

You can leave it any length you desire.  
 

 

IMG_7164.jpg

What you say makes perfect sense to me FWTW. Only issue I have found to be so confusing (along with fly line selections), is that  leader diameter varies  from brand to brand and mono to fluorocarbon. depending on manufacturer and poundage. Not all 40 pound leader material is of the same diameter. I would think diameter would make a difference in the grip  a butt leader has on a fly line more than poundage. Thoughts?

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54 mins ago, yarddog59 said:

What you say makes perfect sense to me FWTW. Only issue I have found to be so confusing (along with fly line selections), is that  leader diameter varies  from brand to brand and mono to fluorocarbon. depending on manufacturer and poundage. Not all 40 pound leader material is of the same diameter. I would think diameter would make a difference in the grip  a butt leader has on a fly line more than poundage. Thoughts?

There are two videos that shop produced, in the second one they embed the section with Flip and go into more detail.  They decide what butt section to use based on the diameter and point out that the stiffer products will have a smaller diameter for the same breaking strength.  I think the example was the Cortland leader was .023 for 40# and Maxima was considerably less, so you want to up the Maxima poundage to get close to the diameter you want.  All this based on 7wt line. 

 

I like the simplicity of the snell to the fly line, I'm just curious how many times you can change out the butt before you begin to mess with the front taper?  And is that really a big deal?  I would think so if we are concerned about the size and weight of the welded loop.  

Edited by Oakman

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To me ,usually fly line is long wore out before I notice the shortage factor. Again in fishing shallow for permit or bones is same as freshwater, reduce visibility.:rav: . Of course larger hard charging species it probably doesn't matter.

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I remember Flip talking about it: "I prefer the road less challenged as mono elates with joy over union with vinyl. Command your battle station in an eternal pursuit of what lies around the corner, in our challenge with denizens of the deep." :)  Love his prose and loved his show. My all time favorite was Spanish Fly, Walker's Cay a close second. Both fortunately available on You Tube. 

 

Years ago at a fly shop our east I had the shop put the line on for quick convenience and the store owner did the same, cut off the built in loop and tied in a 6" section of heavier mono. Over a season it did fray/ dry out and in time had to be replaced, quicker than you would have had to replace a built in loop IMO. 

Edited by brushfly

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31 mins ago, brushfly said:

I remember Flip talking about it: "I prefer the road less challenged as mono elates with joy over union with vinyl. Command your battle station in an eternal pursuit of what lies around the corner, in our challenge with denizens of the deep." :)  Love his prose and loved his show. My all time favorite was Spanish Fly, Walker's Cay a close second. Both fortunately available on You Tube. 

 

Years ago at a fly shop our east I had the shop put the line on for quick convenience and the store owner did the same, cut off the built in loop and tied in a 6" section of heavier mono. Over a season it did fray/ dry out and in time had to be replaced, quicker than you would have had to replace a built in loop IMO. 

 

I came across his channel a couple years ago, seeing his shows I hadn't seen since I was 10 was a nostalgic mind explosion. Sad recling that kind of youthful adventure in a show, a person an my self as that 10 year old on Saturday mornings watching Flip, where's the time go?

Edited by DeepBlue85

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1 min ago, DeepBlue85 said:

 

I came across his channel a couple years ago, seeing his shows I hadn't seen since I was 10 was a nostalgic mind explosion. Sad too, recling that kind of youthful adventure in a show, a person an my self as that 10 year old on Saturday mornings watching Flip, where's the time go?

Right? I remember watching those shows and all those areas he and Jose went to. Well  I'm a happy soul getting close to 60 but let's just say that bucket list hasn't been checked off very much. 

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36 years old now but I can remember watching all the shows on ESPN.  I think it was on Saturday mornings. Walkers cay, Spanish fly, and Larry dahlbergs The Hunt for Big Fish. Must have been around 10. 

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I think people way over think their leader ( and a lot of other things). I use a 40lb butt, loop to tippet, that's it. I used that for all my salt fishing and it works well. I know some experienced guys that use straight 20lb mono for everything( poppers, heavily weighted flies, etc). They don't even measure what they use - a couple of pulls of the spool and they're done. That works well for them.

 

I like it simple and I've seen some tapered formulas that just look way too complex. I don't see the need to taper 40-30-20-15-tippet - that's too much work and too many knots.

 

Ultimately, my point is there are a lot of ways to do this. Flip isn't wrong but he's certainly not right either. It's just what he does. When you get to that level you probably get more into the minutia because you've mastered everything else. That level of detail may or may not matter overall and it may or may not matter to someone that isn't quite at that level.

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I like the welded loops to until they start getting nicked.  After that, I cut them off and use a nail knot tool to attach a short section of 40 or 50lb mono.  This is what i use on my 8 and 10 wt lines.

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