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Drew C.

Plain'ol Shooting Heads

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Maybe I'm short busing it but I can't seem to find a plain old 30' shooting head in 11wt and above. Are they no longer made? I'm not looking correctly?

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Looking a little more, it seems that the Rio heads might be ok. The 10wts are 425gr, I have no idea what my current(old...) 11wt heads weigh but I doubt that it's 425.

 

PS - maybe rod makers could make rods that are 'true' to their line weights and line manufacturers could make lines that are also true to their weight, not this half weight heavier bullchit that seems to be how it's done today. Mini rant over.

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Remember that the rule of thumb for a shooting head is 2 weights above your rod rating, and that was before modern rods (which are often not true to rating but more like 1+ up in power, sometimes 1.5 to 2 up - e.g. Sage TCR as one example).  Shooting heads are not meant to be false cast repeatedly.  And they are typically shorter than the old standard integrated lines which had longer heads.  So your rant is valid but also you are maybe not aware of the reasons why modern shooting heads are so short and heavy.  There's a history to this "trend"

 

The "10 wieght" 425g Rio Outbound Short heads are 2-2.5 line weights heavier than a typical 10wt rod's grain rating.  They are designed based on a) typical shooting head over-weighting, and b) typical modern graphite rod over-weighting.  Crazy?  Maybe.  But makes sense if you look at the history of shooting heads and rod power ratings.  I'm not making excuses for the industry.  It is what it is.  Buyer beware.

 

 

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16 mins ago, Drew C. said:

Looking a little more, it seems that the Rio heads might be ok. The 10wts are 425gr, I have no idea what my current(old...) 11wt heads weigh but I doubt that it's 425.

 

PS - maybe rod makers could make rods that are 'true' to their line weights and line manufacturers could make lines that are also true to their weight, not this half weight heavier bullchit that seems to be how it's done today. Mini rant over.

I use a 10wt Rio outbound short heads on my 11wt, but SA makes them in at least 11wt, possibly 12.

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I'm not the first to suggest this but it's worth it repeating in this thread. Nowadays it makes sense to forget the number rating and go by the grain weight-- and use an inexpensive postage scale. 

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1 min ago, Uncle Stu said:

I'm not the first to suggest this but it's worth it repeating in this thread. Nowadays it makes sense to forget the number rating and go by the grain weight-- and use an inexpensive postage scale. 

I agree. I just need to weigh an older head. If I remember they were fairly close to the aftma chart.

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44 mins ago, Killiefish said:

Remember that the rule of thumb for a shooting head is 2 weights above your rod rating, and that was before modern rods (which are often not true to rating but more like 1+ up in power, sometimes 1.5 to 2 up - e.g. Sage TCR as one example).  Shooting heads are not meant to be false cast repeatedly.  And they are typically shorter than the old standard integrated lines which had longer heads.  So your rant is valid but also you are maybe not aware of the reasons why modern shooting heads are so short and heavy.  There's a history to this "trend"

 

The "10 wieght" 425g Rio Outbound Short heads are 2-2.5 line weights heavier than a typical 10wt rod's grain rating.  They are designed based on a) typical shooting head over-weighting, and b) typical modern graphite rod over-weighting.  Crazy?  Maybe.  But makes sense if you look at the history of shooting heads and rod power ratings.  I'm not making excuses for the industry.  It is what it is.  Buyer beware.

 

 

I'm aware of that. I'm going off my old stuff - rods and heads are 15-20 years old. I'm still using my 9 & 10wt Burks (they throw a 9 & 10 line perfectly or a 10 & 11wt head(30') perfectly - what a novel concept...).

 

I was just looking to buy a plain old 30' 11wt head and maybe a 12 too. I was hoping to avoid pulling old heads off, weighing them and then finding out I can use a rio 9 wt head (or whatever), you know - kind of keep it simple.

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If the old heads load the rod to your liking best to coil them up and weigh em, saves alot of time and money. I know Rio makes the Outbound heads in most weights up to 425gn, don't think they go any heavier. Wulff makes the Ambush floaters, all shorter than 30ft though. I have a 650gn wulff for my beach rod, not ideal at 27ft but the weight matches my 36ft sink head and 38ft intermediate, both of which are home made.  SA must offer some heads, they have a huge lineup. 

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You may want to look into Skagit heads as well. I’m sure there are 30ft heads with the grain weight you are looking for out there.  just an idea…get a rio skagit max short that’s 20ft in a lighter weight and then get 10ft tips that will get you to the grain weight you are looking for with different sink rates to cover different parts of the water column.  

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Posted (edited) · Report post

You can usually find some on the auction site.  I picked up a few recently.  There was a shop selling 460gr airflo intermediate shooting heads, think they were around $15.

 

Like Herb said, wulff has the Ambush in higher weights.  You're right though, I was looking for shooting heads to try out recently and I wasn't seeing much in the higher weights 

 

Hardy has one...Rocket head system.   37' I think, plus extra tips.  I know Streams of Dreams fly shop had them...I bought one recently and they shipped me the wrong one, which was 417 gr.

Edited by PSUFly

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I aware of various skagit and scandi heads, etc. but I don’t want to go there. 
 

I bought some SA heads two year ago or so. They had them on their site then, not anymore. 
 

I just got a few heads for my 6wt, Rio. I went with 7wt heads, one weight up but didn’t pay any attention to the grain wt. I assumed they were the old school version. Now I know why the rod felt a a little over loaded with that head. I needed a size lower I guess. 
 

I leave for Block on Friday, I was hoping to find something that could get to me before I left. That’s not happening. 

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When you DO weigh your "plain old" shooting heads that load your rod properly, don't be surprised if they weigh in at +2 weights heavier than standard.  Oftentimes, a so called "6 wt" shooting head will weigh as much as the first 30ft of an 8wt integrated line.  When you bought that 7wt shooting head you were getting a grain weight probably closer to a 9wt integrated head which is probably why using it on your 6wt rod it seemed overloaded.

 

Once again...

If the older head is labeled a "shooting head" and "X" line weight, it is likely at least X+2 line weights in integrated single hand terms.

 

If the head is a newer style shooting head, like an Ambush Head, or a Rio Outbound head, don't be shocked when you see that it is X + 2.5 line weights or even much heavier than that, because of modern rods.

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I'm old, so correct me if I'm wrong, but when I started to get interested in shooting heads, all that was required was a spool of lead core and your running line of choice, (generally a relatively tangle free length of mono that you pulled on to make it straighter than it was after being on the reel spool for to long), plus a 3' to 5' mono leader.

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Posted (edited) · Report post

On 9/18/2021 at 11:32 PM, ryc72 said:

You may want to look into Skagit heads as well. I’m sure there are 30ft heads with the grain weight you are looking for out there.  just an idea…get a rio skagit max short that’s 20ft in a lighter weight and then get 10ft tips that will get you to the grain weight you are looking for with different sink rates to cover different parts of the water column.  

This a good idea with a selection of tips you just need a small wallet. For the 10 I might get the 20 ft 300 gr head and mow light tips that run about 100 gr they come in 10 ft. Giving you about 30 ft .some people don't like welded loops but I find them strong enough just make sure your tips have at least 25 lb core. They do make 12 lb and could break. Also maxcatch Skagit heads are identical to Rio and at 8 bucks great deal. Been using them all year

 

 

Edited by onthefly

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