flyrad10

Leader Formula For Crease Flies

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I actually never purchased a fly line that came with a manufactures braided loop ever and I have been in this sport for over 30 years now.  I have always built my own double hitched braided loops using 50lb Gudebrod material.  If you build and install  these correctly, they will not fail.  Only concerns some people have is using them on the clear, super slick lines like Airflo.

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5 hours ago, CaryGreene said:

Don't forget, if you want to improve most commercial leaders, add around 18" of heavier Butt section to them and go fishing. They'll often work a lot better. 

Im definitely going to give that a try...makes perfect sense

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8 hours ago, CaryGreene said:

Sure thing Yarddog59 & hi again by the way! I got in from last night's overnight to first light excursion and I actually have to tie a new Leader & Mid section on an old 8wt line I was using, which had a commercially made Leader from Orvis on it. Here is a photo of the leader I used on old Clear Intermediate fly line. I had a Mirage leader on the line. (also included a photo of their Co-Polymer tapered leader. Notice the Mirage has a .022 Butt Section. My Clear Intermediate has a Tip Diameter of .042". Last night, I was getting HORRIBLE leader turnover on longer casts. The line has a head that's close to 60 feet long and I was trying to make longer casts. I had the Mirage pre-made leader on from last season and I think I was fishing in a spot that had a lot of debris in the water, so I wanted a leader with no knots in it & that's why it was on the spool. Anyway, the performance suffered dramatically becasue the Leader Butt was WAYYY to thin for 8wt fly line. The two below premade leaders would be more of for Freshwater fishing. The Inshore Leader has a 40# Butt Section ( no mention of diameter you'll notice - shhhhhh - must be a secret!). 40# Butt sections are usually around .023 to .025 in diameter, which is too thin for most 8wt to 12wt Saltwater Fly Line Tips, which again are going to range from .042 to .048 in diameter. Remembering the general rule, we'd like to be .010 less in diameter to maximize energy transfer and maintian it, delivering that energy to a short mid section and directly to our fly. Therefore, we'd like to be closer to 50# or 60# depending on our material's diameter. .028 to .030 would be ideal for most 8wt to 10wt lines. 

 

614b3666a3de6_Screenshot2021-09-229_57_04AM.png.396feb7a52db1bc9cbdee7c33e60e3e9.png

 

The basic formulas I use are below. They turn over like Ropes, even at longer distances in excess of 100' with the right line. When fishing in closer - 25' to 80' -- zowy. The turn over is absolutely devestating. Even bigger flies just unroll with ease. 

 

I personally like the 60%/30%/10% basic taper. If that's not turing over Bob's Bangers or Crease Flies for you, then you simply need to adjust the Butt and Mid sections to heavier material. Chances are your Fly Line Tip is not matching your Butt optimally.

 

For Most 8wt to 10wt Lines I like:

  • 7 1/2 Leaders on all Intermediate and Full Sinking-Head Lines. 
  • Butt Section: 54" of 60# or 50#
  • Mid Section: 27" of 30#
  • Tippet: 9 to 12" of Whatever # is needed to deal with conditions or species

For Most 8wt to 10wt Lines I like:

  • 9' Leaders on all Floating Lines. 
  • Butt Section: 65" of 60# or 50#
  • Mid Section: 32" of 30#
  • Tippet: 1 1/2' to 2' of Whatever # is needed.

If we need even better turnover for 12" Bunker, Makerel or Herring Flies and very large, wind resistant Crease Flies or Heavily weighted flies - which many shy away from fishing because they feel they can't turn stuff this big over - we'll call in the specail forces and go with a 70%/20%/10% leader, to be used ONLY on an Aggresive, Proressively INCREASING Head taper. BAM! = MAX TURNOVER! Get the most of your Titan, Chinard, Sniper and Outbound type fly lines. 

 

First rule of thumb with very bulky Flies. Are you going to weight them heavily, by wrapping Led wire around the shank? If yes, disregard what I'm about to sugget and use a more triangular, GRADUALLY DECREASING Head Taper. Wulff Bermuda Taper is great for this application. It looses energy as it unrolls and a heavy fly, now out in front of the line, can pull it a very long ways. 

 

However, if we're using the more agressive, front loaded taper fly lines, we like a 7 1/2' Leader ONLY. Long leaders will make it harder to turn over a bulky fly. 

 

For Most 8WT to 10Wt Aggreesive, Front Loaded Lines I like:

  • Butt Section: 63" of 60#
  • Mid Section: 18" of 40#
  • Tppet: 9" to 15" of whatever # is needed. (Usually 20# or 30# for most of my fishing with really big or bulky flies). 

Perfect Perfect Perfect!  My Rio Coastal Quickshooter XP, Outbound Short Sink 7, and Outbound Short Floater all 10W are getting these applications tonight.  Using Mason 50lb .029 as a butt.

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50 mins ago, Surfinator said:

Im definitely going to give that a try...makes perfect sense

Let us know how it works okay Surfinator. Also, whereabouts are you fishing?

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18 mins ago, yarddog59 said:

Perfect Perfect Perfect!  My Rio Coastal Quickshooter XP, Outbound Short Sink 7, and Outbound Short Floater all 10W are getting these applications tonight.  Using Mason 50lb .029 as a butt.

You should get some solid results yarddog, let us know how it works!

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Thanks Cary so much for this wealth of information. Great stuff!  Care to comment on or elaborate how you make your crease flies, perhaps in a new thread or the Fly Tying forum. I saw this in one of your responses and became curious, “I've been making Crease Flies up to 10" long now for a couple seasons now, using a new method I've devised & revised a few times. They are keeled and they feature Tubes. It's weird but Crease Flies are assembled more so than they are "tyed" - putting them together is almost a step-by-step manufacturing excercise. “

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1 hour ago, flyrad10 said:

Thanks Cary so much for this wealth of information. Great stuff!  Care to comment on or elaborate how you make your crease flies, perhaps in a new thread or the Fly Tying forum. I saw this in one of your responses and became curious, “I've been making Crease Flies up to 10" long now for a couple seasons now, using a new method I've devised & revised a few times. They are keeled and they feature Tubes. It's weird but Crease Flies are assembled more so than they are "tyed" - putting them together is almost a step-by-step manufacturing excercise. “

Thank you so much FlyRad! You made my night! Where are you based out of by the way? 

 

We have a pretty cool Crease Fly thread which started with trying to decipher the mysteries. Once we cracked a few of the codes, we got rolling and I tied some of my best attemps, but I had designs of making some Crease Flies of a different type entirely. 

 

I went quais-dark for a while, mostly testing at night and going back to the drawing board. I began to feel like...Vicor Von Frankenstein. LOL. Granted, Mary Shelley was a mother with two kids by age 20 and I'm now an older geezer, so really I can't claim Frankenstein like brilliance, but I swear, the body parts and construction materials involved in the making of DIY Crease Flies are sored in huge Home Deopot totes in my basement and it's been a pretty fun journey. 

 

The Crease Fly thread is due a proper update. I've learned so much & I know it all needs to be shared. I promise I will give this to SOL in the hopefully near future. Captain Joe Blados deserves our eternal respect. He's really awesome and he created a serious platform to be expanded upon. 

 

I'm not looking to become Al Caucci and Bob Natasi either. Francis Betters invented the Haystack and the Usual folks. The comparadun is because of him, not them. 

 

The Crease Fly belongs to Captain Blados and no one else. I hope we all know that. 

 

...the Crease Fly thread became a Ghost Story Competition to many of us. It was more about assembling Frankenflies than really tying anything. 

 

Ideas for patterns came to life in dreams. 

 

In real life, Mary Shelley said she made up the name "Frankenstein." However, Frankenstein is a German name that means Stone of the Franks. What’s more, historian Radu Florescu claimed that the Shelleys visited Castle Frankenstein on a journey up the Rhine River. While there, they must have learned about an unbalanced alchemist named Konrad Dippel, who used to live in the castle. He was trying to create an elixir, called Dippel's Oil, which would make people live for over a hundred years. Like Victor Frankenstein, Dippel was rumored to dig up graves and experiment on the bodies.

 

When Frankenstein came out in 1818, many critics bashed it. “What a tissue of horrible and disgusting absurdity this work presents,” John Crocker, of the Quarterly Review, wrote. But gothic novels were all the rage, and Frankenstein soon gained readers. In 1823, a play titled "Presumption; or The Fate of Frankenstein" cemented the story’s popularity. In 1831, a new version of the book was published, this time under Mary’s name. I fear similar reprecussions regarding what I've done to Crease Flies. 

 

Are they Science Fiction flies? Are they flies at all?

 

In penning her gothic novel, Shelley was writing the first major science fiction novel, as well as inventing the concept of the “mad scientist” and helping establish what would become horror fiction. The influence of the book in popular culture is so huge that the term “Frankenstein” has entered common speech to mean something unnatural and horrendous.

 

When the first "real" Crease Fly I tied came to life on my desk, with it's internal rattle and it's metallic skin, I realized it's name was Frankenstein. The first of it's kind. From there, Proteus was created. 

 

In  Greek mythology,, the prophetic old man of the sea and shepherd of the sea's flocks, who was subect to the sea god Poseidon was next. His dwelling place was either the island of Pharos, near the mouth of the Nile River, or the island of Carpathus, between Crete and Rhodes, in my dreams. In fact, his real location of origin was in South America. On an unamed beach, in a small house, by the sea. 

Edited by CaryGreene

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Since that fateful evening when Proteus Crease Flies were born, machinations have turned increasingly larger and darker, to the point where sharing them might rattle the Fly Fishing community.

 

Imagine delivering these monsters? Turning them over? Catching Swordfish and Tuna on them. Leviathan Crease Flies are of an ilk the community is presently only beginning to imagine.

 

The first attempts were truly ghastly. They lacked imagination. They had yet to be dreampt of and they lacked proper engineering. 

 

What I can assert, is that the proper leader depends upon seven pillars of truth. Comments about what this guy likes and what I like to use mean little to nothing. What is the Tip Diameter of your fly line? Let's start there when thinking about delivering a bulky fly. 

 

When we try to deliver a Leviathan, the game changes. It's played by at first glance, absurd rules. They do make sense. As many unnatural things seem to. 

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Posted (edited) · Report post

Good analogy between literature and fishing since some innovations have altered the course of their perspective histories. I live on Long Island and fish the south shore a lot and see some new possibilities with your words such as casting ballyhoo sized flies to breaking bluefin off shore but I  am not able to adequately cast a 10 inch hollow beast fly and have not been totally won over by the weight balanced school. Not much difference between a popper and a crease fly in terms of actual fly tying steps and assembly but the popper seem to be unequivocally a “fly” In any case back to basics, in the 9 ft leader  you described do you tie the 50# to the 30# with a blood knot?  Might a double surgeons be easier and have similar strength due to their differences in diameter? Maybe it’s me and I need more practice but I find it tricky to join lines more than 15# apart with a blood knot. Same  goes for tying on the tippet in that leader if you choose 15#. would you still use a blood knot? When fishing that salt pond years ago with a #4 clouser and 8# tippet did you tie on that tippet with a blood knot? Not really up on tying blood knots between dissimilar line sizes but just saw a YouTube video where the narrator ties 20# to 80# using 2 turns on the 80# and around 8 turns on the 20# or in another case he double the end of the smaller diameter line in order to maker the wraps around the larger diameter line. Are those techniques for blood knotting lines of dissimilar sizes? 

Edited by flyrad10
New information from search added

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10 hours ago, CaryGreene said:

 

 

The Crease Fly thread is due a proper update. I've learned so much & I know it all needs to be shared. I promise I will give this to SOL in the hopefully near future. Captain Joe Blados deserves our eternal respect. He's really awesome and he created a serious platform to be expanded upon. 
 

 

I agree and I'm really looking forward to that update as, when I made a box full of Crease Flies a few years back, that thread was my go-to source for how to make them. And, as I have lots of materials to do tube flies (remnants of 35 years tying Atlantic salmon flies), it will be fun to try my hand at a tube Crease. And foremost, thanks for your generosity in sharing. That is what SOL is (or should be) all about.  

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21 mins ago, Suave said:

I agree and I'm really looking forward to that update as, when I made a box full of Crease Flies a few years back, that thread was my go-to source for how to make them. And, as I have lots of materials to do tube flies (remnants of 35 years tying Atlantic salmon flies), it will be fun to try my hand at a tube Crease. And foremost, thanks for your generosity in sharing. That is what SOL is (or should be) all about.  

This thread started innocently about crease flies.....and then developed into a treasure trove of saltwater leader construction from an accomplished expert willing to share his time and experiences.  Very very well done.

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1 hour ago, Suave said:

I agree and I'm really looking forward to that update as, when I made a box full of Crease Flies a few years back, that thread was my go-to source for how to make them. And, as I have lots of materials to do tube flies (remnants of 35 years tying Atlantic salmon flies), it will be fun to try my hand at a tube Crease. And foremost, thanks for your generosity in sharing. That is what SOL is (or should be) all about.  

I will not let you down Suave. We were able to refine our ability to make nearly perfect flies, with rattles and everything. Like yourself, I enjoyed learning how to properly design a Crease Fly. As I shared in the thread, Crease Flies are meant to fished as swimmers, though they also work great if you pop-n-stop them. Mose of our effort therefore went into creating flies that were durable and that swam properly under even the slowest of retrieves - much like Surf Fishing Plugs do 

 

614c80d12e187_Screenshot2021-09-229_24_53PM.png.a6e34d9f79c2847c0a7dd746ce373a11.png

 

I merely continued down a path in the woods, one I saw clearly as I walked. Fly Tying, like Fly-Fishing, is a life long journey. 

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